"Parents Imprisoned: The Cycle Continues" - The Life of Michael Crosby

In this episode of Wrong to Strong, host Omar Calvillo interviews Michael Crosby, who shares his remarkable journey from a troubled childhood marked by parental imprisonment, addiction, and personal struggles with substance abuse to a transformative relationship with Jesus Christ. Raised amidst chaos and addiction in Indiana, Michael's life spirals into drug addiction and crime until a series of divine interventions lead him to seek God. Michael's story unfolds as he embraces faith, cleans up his life, and pursues theological education at Moody Bible Institute. This episode explores themes of redemption, faith, and the transformative power of God's love. Tune in to hear Michael's impactful testimony of overcoming darkness to live a life dedicated to Christ.

Transcript

Michael: 0:00

So, mom and dad were, um, both of them struggled, with drug addiction, alcoholism, and, uh, both beautiful souls, both very, very beautiful people. And, um, I'm grateful for both of them. But those younger years were rough, man. I had an older brother who was, um, who was with me. And, we spent a lot of nights, uh, behind the couch crying, you know, um, it was very chaotic, very, abusive, uh, not necessarily physically abusive, but, but man, they, they abused each other, it was like a, like war zone. You know, it was rough. It was rough. I, I often tell people that I believe that, I instinctively went to Jesus. And, and the reason why I say that is because at, at three years old, I remember I. Going behind the couch with my brother and, and we would put our hands together and we would, we would pray to Jesus. And I don't remember anybody telling me that that's what I should do, but I remember just begging the Lord to help it, you know, to help us to, to get it, to stop. And, you know, I believe that he answered that prayer.

omar: 1:05

Hmm.

Michael: 1:05

Eventually'cause they both went to jail.

omar: 1:23

From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago and from around the country. Some of them were gang members, drug dealers, incarcerated victims, and perpetrators of violence. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, Hope, faith and perseverance. These have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Wrong to Strong Chicago. I'm your host. My name's Omar Calvio, and tonight I got my guest with me. His name is Michael Crosby. Um, met his brother at a radical timeout meeting. Seems like the majority of my guests I've met at Radical Timeout, uh, to through, uh, Nia House National Ministries, also ministry doing the Lord's work specifically in prison ministry. Uh, reaching out to the incarcerated, but not only to them, but also to their family members. So thank you guys for, uh, tuning in. For those that have been watching for a while, you already know. If you're watching on YouTube, you know, make sure you hit that like button. Make sure you subscribe and turn down those, uh, notifications that way. Man, whenever we release another podcast, you get that notification and, please, if, if these stories been blessing, you continue to share'em, you know, uh, copy the link, text two, three people, man, and tell'em they gotta tune in and to hear some of the, the stories that are happening, not just the stories, but to hear what God is doing in the lives of individuals, especially out here in the city of Chicago. Uh, so I like to welcome my brother, uh, Michael Crosby to the podcast and thanks for being out here, brother.

Michael: 3:18

Yeah, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Omar. You know, I definitely wanna say that, uh, I love what you're doing for the kingdom and we need more people like you.

omar: 3:28

Mm. Amen brother. Hey, like I said, uh, I don't know, I don't think I shared with you, but this all from a challenge from my buddy. Shout out to JC. Out in Phoenix, Arizona. Okay. Jc? Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Yo, yo. So he's, you know, this is, uh, and JC

Michael: 3:43

that for real,

omar: 3:44

from one JC to the other man. For real. You know, it's funny you say that.'cause, the way it started, he said that, uh, he, he was in prayer. He's like, I don't know why, but I feel that guy wants you to start a podcast. Yeah. He called me up. That was almost two and a half years ago. And here we are, man, sharing, uh, stories of redemption that point people to Christ, man. So we eventually wanna get into yours, brother, but, uh, uh, you know, what, uh, could you tell us where you grew up? What a city in, uh, I think you're in another state, right? If, if I'm mistaken, where you grew up.

Michael: 4:12

Yeah. I'm actually from, uh, a little, a little town, um, outside of Cincinnati, Ohio called Lawrenceburg, Indiana.

omar: 4:19

Okay.

Michael: 4:20

Yeah. Down at the, in the southern part of, uh, Indiana.

omar: 4:24

Got it. You know what, I, I was down there, uh, Cincinnati's close to like a Kentucky, right?

Michael: 4:29

Yeah. There, it's the tri-state. It's uh, right on the, uh. There's a little corner down there, Cincinnati, Florence, Kentucky, and Lawrenceburg, Indiana. Right. On the, they call it the tri-state.'cause all three states touch.

omar: 4:40

Okay. Yeah.'cause uh, uh, I went out there to the, uh, creation Museum and, uh, uh, a Noah's Ark Yes. With my wife. And, uh, we were out there, so it was pretty, pretty cool. And then Cincinnati, they had this cool place, uh, American Sign Museum. I don't know if you ever heard of it. I have not. But it's nice, man. You gotta go. They, they got all those like neon signs, you know, like the ones that have in Vegas, like all the old school ones. Yeah. And they had like a warehouse full of ones. Pretty nice man. Right. But yeah. You know, what could you tell us, uh, how was life out there, especially in those younger years? Was mom and dad in the picture, uh, back then?

Michael: 5:12

Yeah. So, uh, mom and dad were, um, god bless'em, you know, God bless'em. But, you know, both of them struggled, uh, with drug addiction, alcoholism, and, um, I. Uh, both beautiful souls, both very, very beautiful people. And, um, I'm grateful for both of them. But those younger years were rough, man. And, uh, yeah, they were, they were quite rough. I had a, I had an older brother who was, um, who was with me. And, uh, we, we spent a lot of nights, uh, behind the couch crying, you know, um, it was very chaotic, very, uh, abusive, uh, not necessarily physically abusive, but, but man, they, they abused each other, you know? It was like a, like war zone. And it wasn't anything, you know, it wasn't nothing for, for the police to be there. Um, you know, it was rough. It was rough. I, I often tell people that I believe that, uh, I instinctively went to Jesus. And, and the reason why I say that is because at, at three years old, I remember I. Going behind the couch with my brother and, and we would put our hands together and we would, we would pray to Jesus. And I don't remember anybody telling me that that's what I should do, but I remember just, just begging the Lord to help it, you know, to help us to, to get it, to stop. And, you know, I believe that he answered that prayer.

omar: 6:36

Hmm.

Michael: 6:36

Eventually'cause they both went to jail. Oh, wow. But praise the Lord on that man. Man. Praise the Lord on that.

omar: 6:43

That's so, so, no, nobody, uh, uh, was, uh, I guess, uh, sharing faith with you at that young age where you heard about Jesus, that, that you could recall?

Michael: 6:51

No, it was, it was, uh, the last thing on anybody's mind, man. Yeah. It was, there was a lot of, uh, you know, I had grandparents and who were, um. They definitely weren't in faith, but they were, I, I would, I would say decent people. They were very decent people. They, uh, you know, my grandpa's a farmer and, uh, my grandmother, she was very, very sweet. Very sweet. They were, they were good people and they, they looked out for me and my brother the best that they could. Um, but with my parents, they were, uh, my parents were kind of a tornado, you know, if anybody's, uh, experienced addiction, um, it really does take a person to the outer Brinks of insanity, you know, especially crack cocaine and alcohol. And, uh, yeah, I just watched them just destroy their lives and destroy themselves and each other and, and, you know, they did the best that they could with us. I, I, uh, I, I don't remember them being, uh, super unkind or, you know, uh, very like, uh, abusive physically. But I do remember just watching them just scream at each other. You know, my mom would, she would lock herself in the bathroom and my dad would just beat the door down. We'd just be terrified, you know? Yeah. And that went on for many years,

omar: 8:09

man. I, I, I know a little while you said they, they eventually stopped because they went to prison. How, how old were you when, uh, both parents went in?

Michael: 8:16

Yeah, so, um, my dad actually ended up going in, uh, so my mom, uh, she got locked up I think when I was five. Um, and then my dad got locked up when I was seven, and that was in 1999. And I remember that, uh, very, uh, vividly because my dad actually got sober. He got clean in 1999, in, in jail. And, uh, you know, I, I have always said that it was because of my prayers, you know, I prayed him into jail.

omar: 8:49

Yeah.

Michael: 8:50

You, you, you

omar: 8:50

know what it, a lot of people on, unfortunately. They don't get clean until they, they get in there, you know? Yeah. Like I've seen a lot of people where I could finally have a reasonable conversation with them.'cause when they were out just high is like a totally different person, you know? Yeah. And once they get their sobriety and they get their mind right, and then they're, to hear'em is like, man, talking to a whole different person now. How, how was that for you? Like when you, you mentioned your dad got sober and, and there, well, what differences did you see, I guess from the high and drunk man to the. Sober man.

Michael: 9:25

Oh, yeah, man, that's such a good question. Um, you know, there, there was obviously some things in me that, that were still angry with him.

omar: 9:33

H how how old were you

Michael: 9:33

in, in 1989? I, I was, I was seven when he got locked up. Okay. But I remember from between eight and nine is when, uh, you know, he got out and was, uh, he got out of treatment and, uh, was, was willing and ready to, to, uh, start participating in my life. And, you know, it, it was quite a miracle. I will say this, you know, uh, he, he states that, you know, that he, that the grace of God met him in a jail cell. And, and I believe that's true because he's been sober for 25 years. Oh, praise God. Um, but he immediately came out and, um, he devoted his life to staying sober, to carrying the message and, uh, yeah, he became a dad, man. He became a dad. He coached my baseball team. And, there was a big transformation. Very good. Big, big transformation.

omar: 10:23

So, so that's your dad now, is your mom still incarcerated at the, at that time?

Michael: 10:27

So, yeah, my mom, she bounced in and out, um, for a long time actually. She just, she had a stroke at the beginning of January of this year, and, um, she's been in an assisted living ever since. So, you know, she pretty much went until, until the wheels fell off, you know, and, uh, I mean, praise the Lord that she had a stroke, which is really, really hard to say. But, um, it's, I believe that it saved her life and I definitely believe it saved her soul, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

omar: 10:58

Now saved her soul. Does eventually she came to faith or, yeah.

Michael: 11:01

Yeah, man, since she had her stroke, she really, um, she came to, you know, the Lord was really talking to her, you know, and, um, I got to take her to church and, I believe that she's repented with her heart and, I think she's making the steps to, to, uh, really get right with him the best that she can, you know? Yeah. Got

omar: 11:19

it, man. I, I know you mentioned like two bad things in a sense. Prison for one and a stroke for another, and you said that's the only way they would've stopped, right? Yeah,

Michael: 11:29

man, that addiction just had her, I mean, it was so, you know, especially, she starts, she started smoking crack young man. Mm-hmm. You know, and she suffered from some of the most horrible, uh, abuse, uh, sexual and physical abuse that I've ever heard. And that's always been, you know, that that was always, uh, something that allowed me to look at my mom with such compassion, you know, because even though she would be running, I would go around her, I'd bring her around friends, and my friends would be like, dude, your mom is crazy.'cause she'd be talking to me crazy. She'd, you know, she'd hit you with a beer bottle. She was just off the hook, man. But like, at what age? What was it? Yeah, I mean, 15, 16 years old, like, we would be, you know, she would, she would come crazy swinging a beer bottle just like out of her head, you know? Um, but I, I was able to have such compassion because I knew what she went through, man. I, I knew it.

omar: 12:18

At, at, at what age did you, I guess, hear, did she share her story with you or did you hear it from somebody else that allowed you to have that compassion for her?

Michael: 12:28

Yeah, a lot of it. A lot of it came from, um, from her, you know, over the years, you know, um. Bits and pieces of it. Uh, some of it came from my father after they split up, and some of it came from some of my family members. Um, you know,'cause I had a lot of questions like, why is mom like this man? Why is she like this? And they'd be like, look, you don't know. You don't know what this woman's been through. And, uh, yeah.

omar: 12:54

Yeah, that's, that, that's tough. Now you, you mentioned, um, back then your dad cleaned up Yeah. Began to coach, you know, your baseball team, I believe you said. Mm-hmm. So how, how were those teenage years for you? Like how does life look?

Michael: 13:07

Well, yeah, man, it was, uh, I, I started strong. I went from strong to wrong, to wrong, to strong. Uh, but I, you know, when he was coaching my baseball team, I always had a little bit of, uh, rebellion in me. You know, not too bad. Um, but baseball was good. I was a great athlete, you know, I did, I did pretty well in school and I was pretty popular. Um, I liked to skateboard. I love sports, you know, I had a lot of friends. Um, and things seemed to be good, you know? And, um, I can't remember exactly what happened. I wanna say it was a, a snowboard accident. Um, but I got, I tried opiates for the first time.

omar: 13:49

And what were those prescribed? Or did somebody give'em to you?

Michael: 13:51

No, they were prescribed. Yeah, they were prescribed. And I remember taking one, you know, and it gave me a feeling like I had never felt before. You know, I explain it like, um, like a warm, uh, like a warm bath.

omar: 14:07

Mm-hmm.

Michael: 14:08

And everything made sense. And even if it didn't, I didn't care. You know, I didn't care.

omar: 14:13

Just'cause of that feeling, huh?

Michael: 14:14

Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and that was where it started, man. That was where most of the darkness started,

omar: 14:21

man. From a, from a injury to prescription. A prescribed opioid, huh?

Michael: 14:26

Yeah, I think I was 15, man. 15 years old. And by the time, uh, you know, time gets fuzzy. When you're running and gunning like that. But I can remember sitting in, uh, ninth grade study hall, dope sick. Just like couldn't wait for the bell to ring so I could get to the city to get some fentanyl, ninth grade, you know? And my dad, who was sober, who was uh, trying to live a, a, a spiritual life, watch me, watch me just, I mean, tank man. I can't imagine, you know, I really can't.

omar: 15:01

But, but what kind of, uh, things did he try to do, like, and when, once he noticed that you were going, you know?

Michael: 15:06

Yeah, he, uh, yeah, he, everything, let's put it that way. He, he tried everything. I mean, you know, he probably dropped me off at 25 treatment centers. He had a little bit of a joke. He would say, man, I would drop you off at a treatment center five hours away. And then you'd beat me home. And, uh, it's sad to think about, but at the same time, it is kind of funny. You know, I would, he'd drop me off. I'd be like, all right, dad, gimme a hundred bucks. So as soon as he'd gimme the money, as soon as he leave, I'd just, I'd be out of there. You know? I didn't want it, you know, I didn't want it. There was nothing, there was nothing in me that wanted to get clean. Yeah.

omar: 15:42

You know? Now, um, you, you mentioned a brother at that time. Um, how, how does it, does he go down the same path? Well, how, how does that, yeah. I mean, I know it's your story, but maybe John just,

Michael: 15:51

yeah. No, dude. It, it actually, it, uh, for one, he, he, he's struggling, uh, pretty good right now. And if you know, man, uh, I want him to come to face so bad, man. Amen. But yeah, my brother, he, he got locked up on, when he was, uh, 19, he caught a 10 year sentence for selling cocaine. And um, I think he ended up doing like three or four years. And, uh, he went to Indiana, uh, he went to IYC, which is the Department of Corrections in Indiana. He got out for, I, I want to say maybe a couple months, turned around, caught a couple probation violations, and went right back for another couple years. And, um, that last bit that he did really tore him up.

omar: 16:35

Mm.

Michael: 16:35

He was, uh, affiliated, running and gunning, getting high in there. And when he came out, man, it just, um, things were different, you know? Yeah. Things were different.

omar: 16:44

Now. Now, now, what about you? Uh, was it just drugs or did you end up like, hitting the streets too, as far as like gangs and,

Michael: 16:50

yeah, man, I, I, I followed suit, you know, I followed, uh, right behind him. Um, I ended up getting locked up. I, you know, I went to treatment center probably 20 times. Uh, went to jail. Um, I ended up going to prison for, uh, I wanna say a little over a year. I think it was like 16, 17 months. And, um, got affiliated, followed right in, man, just looking for, uh. Any type of connection, you know? Um, and at that time it also, you know, being in that situation, uh, being locked up, um, being young and impressionable and, um, afraid, you know, I don't think I'd ever would've admitted that, but I, I was just afraid, man,

omar: 17:33

yeah, you, you, you know how many men have sat here and told me that? And then if you look at some of these guys, man, some big, bad dudes, you know, like, yeah. And they're like, man, that, that's one thing that, that I've, um, that I've loved about how just vulnerable guys are like, you know,'cause some of these guys I was like, locked up with, and man, these guys were big, bad, you know? I'm like, man, I'm glad to have this guy by me. And then for them to share, like, man, during that time, man, I was scared. You know? And then, uh, nobody's gonna admit it then, but now we could, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because man, you're, you're, you're going into the unknown, right?

Michael: 18:05

Right.

omar: 18:06

In a sense. So how old are you when you're, when you're in there? Uh, I was 21. Okay. How, how, how much time did you end up doing?

Michael: 18:12

Uh, probably a year and a half. Okay. I did 16, 17 months. Close to 18 months.

omar: 18:17

Now, let, let me ask you this, uh, um, I had a, uh, my last guess he said, uh, he, he was, uh, he became, uh, a worst drug addict in prison, and he was out in the streets. How was that for you? That when you went in there?

Michael: 18:31

Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I was high the whole time. Mm. Yeah. I was high the whole time. I would, I would sit out at the poker table and I would, I would do Suboxone, smoke weed, and I would just, uh, whatever would come in. Really, you know, not to glorify it at all. No.

omar: 18:47

Right.

Michael: 18:48

I would sit out there and I'd watch the guys, uh, go to church, you know, you could see'em. They got, they got clear windows in the meeting rooms, and they would go in there and have church. Man, I'd just sit out there and just shake my head on'em, like, they're so dumb. They don't even know. But, but literally I'm sitting there at the table and I'm dying inside. I'm dying inside, man, and I don't know why.

omar: 19:09

At, at, at that time? Did anybody try to witness to you, preach to you some of these guys?

Michael: 19:15

You know, I, I did have, um, I did have one guy when I was, I was locked up when I was 17 years old and his name was Jeff. And, um, he was a disciplinary for a residential facility I had been in for about a year. And I remember he, uh, I was in trouble'cause I had gotten in a little bit of, uh, I think I had gotten in some, uh, scuffs with somebody, you know, and he sat me down and, uh, he told me about the gospel and, um, he taught me about Jesus Christ. And, um, I, I took to it, it actually, it actually did. I, I remember, I remember, uh, thinking like there's something to this. There really is. He took me to church and I experienced, um, I do believe I experienced, I. Uh, a movement of God. I believe that, um, I definitely experienced the love of God through the church. Definitely. You know? Um, but I remember getting out and when I got out of that, uh, that juvenile facility, I went right back into the old environment, you know? And, uh, it, it didn't really stick

omar: 20:26

right.

Michael: 20:26

You know,

omar: 20:27

but, but you, uh, felt something like that? I,

Michael: 20:30

yeah. Yeah, man. And, uh, more than anything, I think I felt my own conviction and guilt because I was raised by a man who, uh, after he got clean, did his best to teach me good morals. Hmm. You know, be honest, tell the truth. Don't steal, don't hurt people, love, you know, uh, and those were all things that I wanted to be and wanted to, uh, to have, you know? But when that addiction's on you Yeah. And you gotta get money. No matter what the cost, you do a lot of things that are, are contrary to those morals and contrary to those beliefs, you know? Yeah.

omar: 21:11

You know, could I ask you at, at, um, at, at, at this point, how, how old are you at when, like, when you're

Michael: 21:16

So, when I was in the juvenile facility or, uh, at, when I, uh, at like when, um, well, I guess when your dad's telling you all this, like, uh, these morals and Yeah. This was pretty much throughout my teenage years. Yeah. Into adulthood. Gotcha. You know, I would, I would get locked up. I would be in a treatment center and I would call him and I'd be like, dad, I did it again, man. And he would witness to me. Um, yeah. And, and that's another thing, I, I don't wanna leave out my dad because he really did, you know, I just couldn't hear my dad. Let's be honest, man. I couldn't hear him, you know, and, uh, he probably, he probably told me the most about God. I. Because I would call him and I would one more time in a treatment center, or I'm in jail again, or I'm in prison, or, or whatever the case may be. And I would call him, and he's so humble, man. He would just be like, Michael, why don't you pray? And, uh, man, that's making me emotional. So I don't think about that all the time, you know? But, and I don't give him enough credit, but he would, uh, he would, and I would, I would talk to him. I had a hard time facing him sometimes because I would, I would be so emotional and I would call him and just be ashamed and guilty, you know? I mean that, you know, he's my biggest fan and I'm his biggest fan.

omar: 22:32

Amen.

Michael: 22:32

Um, but yeah, I couldn't hear him. I really couldn't hear him. And, uh, it took me many years to understand that, uh, how hard he tried, you know? And maybe he didn't come at me with the gospel.

omar: 22:45

Yeah.

Michael: 22:45

Maybe he didn't hit me with like scripture and, you know, but he, but he would say things like, Michael, just get on your knees and ask God to help you. Hmm. And, um, sometimes I would do it, you know, but, but never with a whole heart.

omar: 23:01

Got it. You know, I wanted to ask you, like, I know you mentioned your childhood, the way you experienced, I think maybe up to the age of, I don't know, six, seven, seeing, seeing the other man. Yeah. Like, and then you see the change, and now he's like, in a sense preaching to you even though he is not maybe, you know, sharing the, the scripture. But was there ever a part of you that couldn't receive based on the early years, I guess that how, how, how did, how did that affect you when you, when you looked at him, I guess like, okay, now you're telling me this, but I remember that, was that ever like going through your mind?

Michael: 23:35

Yeah, yeah. I, I would say that, um, there was always a little bit of anger, you know, I don't know if it was necessarily at him, um, but there was always a lot of anger in me and it was directed at him because. He was the one that was there, you know, so I was more blinded to anyone and to everything. You know, the, uh, the Bible says that, that the light of the gospel is blocked to those who don't believe, and I, I just don't know if I believed. And, um, you know, he would say, God will help you. And I would say, why hasn't he, you know? Um, I I I knew that obviously something profound happened in his life. Yeah. And everyone that meets him knows that too, because he's, he's a very humble man and, uh, he does his best to help people, you know? Um, but there was, I would say that that something, something was stopping me from hearing Yeah. From fully receiving. Yeah.

omar: 24:34

So, so, okay. Like in your twenties, how, how does life look? I know you mentioned a couple times going in and outta prison. What, what, what happens during the, the twenties, I guess?

Michael: 24:42

Yeah, man, that's where things actually, uh, got, got the, the worst. Um, I. You know, I, I was, like I said, I was, I was on heroin very young. Um, but I continued to, uh, use heroin, um, IV heroin for another, uh, I think I used for 13 years. So you can imagine what that would look like. Um, I would get outta jail. I would, uh, I was, you could say I was homeless, but I always had a place to stay, whether it was with a friend or with a girl or, or whatever. But yeah, man, I, I just did whatever I had to do to get money to get high. And, um, I basically burnt every bridge, lost every friend, lost every job. I mean, you know, I burned it down and I burned it down and I burned it down. And, uh, I didn't see, I didn't see hope. Mm-hmm. You know, I really didn't.

omar: 25:39

So, uh, and what, what, what, what ends up happening that maybe starts to bring a, uh, change in your life?

Michael: 25:45

Well, there was a few instances and, uh, one that I, that I remember, uh, pretty vividly is, I think I was 25 and, or maybe 24, and I was driving, oh, I'm 20, sorry. I was 20. Okay. And I was driving my girlfriend's car at the time, and I was leaving the methadone clinic. And, um, I, I took some other drugs with it. And when you take those hard drugs, you get sleepy. And I was driving back from the clinic and I, I slammed the car into a telephone pole. And the way that I hit this telephone pole was right on the driver's side door. And it, I mean, it brought this thing all the way in and I should have been dead, let's put it that way. And I get to the hospital and, uh, I'm laying on the bed and my dad walks in and a police officer walks in. And they pull a needle outta my belongings, and he's standing there with my dad. He, he shows it to my dad. The cop wraps it up, throws it away, and said, your son needs help. And he walks out. And I remember my dad just like sitting there, almost like dumbfounded. And I looked at him and I think for the first time I said, you know, and I was broken. I said, God or Dad, I, I really think that God's talking to me, man. I think he's talking to me. And, uh, I don't remember what my dad said, but I'm pretty sure it's something like, yeah, I think he is. Hmm. And, um, so that, you know, that was, that was pretty young. And then, uh, there was a few other instances where I, where I just, I knew in my heart where I had those sobering moments where I felt as if there was something. That was looking out for me. Even though I was wicked and wretched and, and could not hold it together, there was something that was loving me. There was something that was holding me, holding me up, you know? And at the end there, you know, I, I believe this was the beginning of my true conversion. I, I was, uh, locked in a garage. I'd locked myself in this garage and I'd been up for I don't know how many days on methamphetamine. And, uh, I'm in there just smoking cigarette after a cigarette, after a cigarette. My fingers were black and I, it didn't matter how many drugs I did, man, I couldn't feel any better. And I just begin to, I begin to feel such sorrow that the thought immediately came like, I'm done with this man. I'm done with this life. I, and I thought to myself, alright, this is it. This is it. I'm done. I'm done. So in, before making a plan, before anything, I just, I had this moment where I was like, I know, I know that God is real. I know that he's real man. And I begin to pray. And I begin to pray and pray. And I prayed with everything in my heart, man. I prayed with faith.

omar: 29:04

Hmm.

Michael: 29:05

And I cried out to him. You know, I often tell people I put the gun to my soul and pulled the trigger because I was, I was going to, I was gonna hear from him that, or I was done, you know? And through his grace, only through his grace, uh, he intervened. And when I say he intervened, I mean it. And that night, I'll never be the same. Um, I won't go into to all the details, but I gave him probably 30 years of pain. Sorrow and regret. And, uh, I just laid it at his feet, man. I laid it at his feet. And, um,

omar: 29:47

now was that like in a form of confession of you just speaking these things?

Michael: 29:52

Yeah, I would say that. Um, after I, after I heard from him, I broke down and I started to, I started to, in my mind, I started to think about the way that I was sorry. And the way that I had let not only myself down, but him down the way that I had ran from him, knowing that he was right there. And I just, I emotionally gave it to him. I mentally gave it to him and I begged him to help me. You know, I just, I begged him like, if you can do anything with, if with me, please do it. Please do it. And, um, that was when this crazy journey started, man. And, uh, yeah. And he began to minister to me and my dreams. You know, there's a, there's a verse in there that says, uh, your young men will have visions.

omar: 30:51

Man.

Michael: 30:51

Was that Joel? Joel? Yeah. And your old, old men with dream dreams. So basically the Lord was telling me that I'm getting old. Let me ask you, uh, when this happened, how, how old are you when you had this? Yeah, I was 29. 29 years old. 33 now.

omar: 31:07

Yeah. So, okay, we gotta start speaking to you through dreams. I was this like consistently like, and are, are, are, are you perceiving then that is God speaking to you? Like when, when you're having him?

Michael: 31:19

Well, it, it's kind of, it's, this is kind of a tricky question because I, I understood that it was God, but I didn't know who God was. So let's put it that way. Yeah.

omar: 31:31

Yeah.

Michael: 31:32

I thought I knew that something, this was something big and this was something all powerful and infinite. And I knew that every time that I would hear his voice, man, it would bring me to my knees, but I didn't know who he was. Yeah. And that's when, that's when the dreams started to bring me to the truth. And I wish I could say that I got clean on that day, but I did not. I, I continued to use for almost another year and a half, maybe two years, and I smoked cigarettes. All this stuff had to get cleaned up, you know?

omar: 32:04

What was the difference though? Like, I know you mentioned like, uh, significant even though you were using Yeah. How, how were you, um, I guess how did the, the high feel after that incident? Yeah. It was just

Michael: 32:18

pure guilt, man.

omar: 32:19

Oh

Michael: 32:19

yeah. It was pure guilt. Something

omar: 32:21

you didn't feel before.

Michael: 32:22

Well, I, I actually felt it, but now I knew why. You know, and not only that, but I knew I was terrified because God was pursuing me. You know, he was pursuing me. I knew as soon as I laid my head down on that pillow that he was gonna be there and he was gonna be saying something. And not all the time was it harsh some of the time. It was very harsh. Sometimes it was, you know, people say that, that God is just love. God is whatever he needs to be to get to you. You know?

omar: 32:53

And he

Michael: 32:53

proved that in my life. Could,

omar: 32:55

could you share some like, uh, the harsh, what, what were some of those harsh things you felt God Yeah. Telling

Michael: 33:01

you? Well, uh, I would say that one dream that I had was, uh, my best friend who had passed away at 18 years old from, uh, he actually got shot. His name was Shane. And I loved him, man. I loved him so much. And one of the dreams I had was Shane. Uh. Was there, he came to me and I was wrapped in chains. I had chains wrapped around my neck and around my arms and around my legs. And I believe that those chains were symbolizing the way that I was chained to my sin, to the addiction, to all the, uh, darkness that I going on. And chain in the dream came to me and he grabbed me by my shirt with tears in his eyes, and he begged me. He said, man, please wake up and live, bro. Wake up and live. And I remember waking up and just thinking like, whoa, almost like that was dirty, Lord, because, you know, you just got me good with that, you know? And, and, uh, there was many situations like that before I ended up giving up, giving up the drugs where he would just, uh, he would, he would literally overwhelm me with love. And it would be painful because I had to wake up and look myself in the mirror and know that I wasn't gonna get clean. I knew that I was gonna do it again. I was gonna smoke cigarettes all day. You know, um, but thank God he was patient with me, man.

omar: 34:22

Amen. Yeah. Something similar happened to me, like before I got saved, uh, my girlfriend, she ended up getting saved and she started praying for me. And I tell people that when she started praying for me, I started having demonic nightmare that night.

Michael: 34:35

Oh yeah.

omar: 34:36

Like it was just like, it seemed like it was just like, maybe not every night, but every other night I started dreaming. I used to see like, like demons and just a lot of like, I didn't know it back then, but it was like spiritual warfare. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's, that's when the war really kicked up for my soul.'cause she's saved, she's filled with the Holy Spirit and I'm still in darkness. You know, I'm still, you know, like ganged involved, the mentality. I'm, I'm, I'm just, so, I, I could, I could relate to that. I could definitely agree that God will speak to us in our dreams. Yeah. And like you mentioned, it is not always the, it is not always love, man. I, but I thank God for that. Because it, it, um, I think about that scripture that says that, uh, God is patient with us not wanting anyone to perish, but all to come to repentance. So I think some of those dreams Yeah, that almost like a wake up call. Like, man, I'm, yeah. Trying to, like you said, wake up man. I love what you said that what, what, what he said in the dream, wake up and live.

Michael: 35:41

Wake

omar: 35:41

up and

Michael: 35:41

live. Yeah. Yeah. And I believe, you know, people say that we're, uh, you know, in the scriptures when it talks about being called, right. A lot of people say different things about being called, like whether you're called to preach or you're called to pastor. What I realize, and I think what you realize too, is when God's calling you, he's calling you to him. Yeah. You're being called to him. And, and I had a few dreams where I was possessed and some, you know, some anacondas crawling and all kinds of stuff, man, that were, that was terrifying. But he was literally, uh, the only way I can describe it is he threw a rope around me and he was just yanking it, dragging me through the mud. Man, I'm, you're coming home boy. And thank God, man.'cause when you're, when you're getting pulled to him, when he's calling you home, he's calling you back to himself. It seems impossible. I don't know how you're gonna get me to there. I don't know how you're gonna get me clean. I don't know how you're gonna get me off these cigarettes. I don't know how you're gonna get me to quit doing this. I don't know how. But you've done it with other people, I think, you know, and that's what he did with you, man. Yeah. He was calling you home.

omar: 36:55

You, you know what, uh, as you were talking, a memory came to my mind of like, the last few weeks before I got saved and the feeling that I felt, I felt like I was going crazy. I felt like I was losing my mind. Oh yeah, man. Like. Just the, the thought just came to me how I felt like I, I felt out of place. I felt uncomfortable, uneasy, and like, man, what's wrong with me? And looking back, man, that was like a, like, almost like I needed to go through that before he finally came. And Sounds like you were going through something similar there, man. So he's dreams. You feel him calling you, uh, tell us what, what happens like that eventually leads, you know, like, yeah,

Michael: 37:40

man, I, I, uh, I will say this. I, I, um, I eventually got to the place to where I was also felt like I was going crazy, you know, I was seeing shadows and, uh, feeling stuff on my skin. And, and it's not like I'm doing, uh, at this point, I am doing harder drugs, but not drugs that, you know, I wasn't doing, uh, some like speed normally does that, right? But I wasn't doing speed, so you wouldn't, that doesn't usually happen. Yeah. When you're doing opiates. But, so basically I was really, uh. The only way I can describe it is God's grace, man. And, uh, I know it's kind of, it's kind of crazy to look at it like that, but he was, he brought me to surrender and eventually, um, I went and I checked myself into a, a to a hospital. I said, you gotta help me. I said, you gotta help me. And they're like looking at me like, how can we help you? You know, just like, uh, probably, I'm sure everybody else was looking at me at the time. And, um, yeah, I remember the first couple days in there, dude, things just got quiet. Things got really quiet within me, around me. Uh, the dream slowed down, the darkness slowed down a little bit, and um, I think it was eight or nine days into treatment. Um, I was sitting out by this pond and, um, I seen, I seen the sun shining off the pond and I seen the ducks fly and I had this warm feeling inside, man. And I just knew, I knew right then and there. I was like, he did it, man. He saved me. Wow. And it hurt, but man, did he save me. You know, it reminds me of a, uh, there's a parable in the Bible that talks about, uh, I think Jesus is talking to Peter and he says, uh, if I loan two people money one a little bit and one a lot, I'm not gonna quote it. I'm gonna paraphrase a little bit. You know, and I forgive both debts, who will love me more? And, uh, Peter answers and says, the one you get, the one who had the biggest debt that you forgave. And he said, exactly. And I resonate so much with that because finally when I was like, when it was all said and done, and I was surrendered and I was in a safe place and I had given it all to him, uh, I loved him. I was like, wow, he did it. He did it. Man, my God is awesome.

omar: 40:01

Hmm.

Michael: 40:02

My God is awesome.

omar: 40:03

No, no at this, at this point. Is it Jesus? Do you know it's him? Or like, where, where are you at, at, at that moment?

Michael: 40:09

Yeah, man, this is so, no, okay, that's the thing. Let's, yeah, so that's the thing is, wait, you know, it's God, but okay, I know it's God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's God, but I don't know who he is. Yeah. Okay. So I had a dream, a couple more dreams, but one in specific, one specifically, my best friend Shane, again, who passed away, uh, sugar Shane Goleman, love him, man. Rest in peace. He, uh, he was in a dream and he was looking, uh, really cleaned up and, uh, had a nice haircut, had school books in his hand. And I run up to him and I say, Shane, man, you look so good, bro. I was like, what happened? And he looks at me and he says, Michael, Jesus. And I woke up and I, I just, I just scratched my head. I was like, Jesus, what started to make sense? I was like, hold up. Is that who? Nah. Well, if you like, a little bit later, I woke up one morning and I heard through my spirit clear as day, Michael, get closer to me. And I just remember begging you, I said, how Read the scriptures? And then it was like, whoa, okay. You mean the Holy Bible? You want me to read the Holy Bible? And it made sense. I was like, yo, God just told me to read the Bible. That means the Bible is real and true and that that Jesus Christ. It's real and true. There were many things that happened after that, but, but what was very significant is I started going to church and I would go to church and I would just, I was just seeking his presence, man. I just wanted to be, get close to him. I didn't really know how to do it. I was definitely a babe in Christ. You know, when I was first going, I go into church, I walk out and I'd smoke a cigarette. You know, I, I, I was not cleaned up at all.

omar: 42:11

Now, can I ask you, at this point, are you just going by yourself? Is anybody around you? I'm going by myself, man. Okay man. Going by myself. That, that's huge, man.'cause for somebody, usually somebody has to invite you or, you know, but for you to just know, man, God told me to read the scriptures. Yes. So, okay. Did you just look for a church? How did you end up walking through the doors of, of the church

Michael: 42:32

like? Yeah, man, I just, I, I was in a little town and, and um, you know, I just, I heard there was something happening at this church and, uh, I had a cool little church and, and I just wanted to go, man. I wanted to go and I wanted to be in the presence. And, um, as I, as I begin, it wasn't just that church though. I was going to everything. If I heard of a tent, revival was going on, I'm going to, that you're telling me they got the Holy Ghost out there. I'm going to, that this church is on fire for Jesus. I'm going there. It didn't matter. Like, I just, I just want to get to him. Mm-hmm. You know? And, um, so I do remember I would, I would go into these churches and people would, you know, I'm going to a, a Holy Spirit filled churches, and these people would prophesy over me and they would say, man. God's. God's got a calling on your life, you know he's gonna use you. And I went to, uh, my first tent revival, and, and this was like after I, I still was pretty new to church and, and the pastor gets a word from the Lord, somebody in here has a calling on their life to preach the gospel. And I'm gonna, I want this person to come to the front. And they're like, you back there with a tattoo on your neck? Come up here. I'm just like, hold up man. Or walking down the street. And I, I'm praying, I'm like, Lord, I'm having all these experiences in church, but isn't this what church people say that you're called? Don't, don't, this is like a dad saying you're gonna do good in school or you're, you're gonna do whatever you set your mind to. And I'm walking down the street and this black lady stands up on her front porch. She points at me and she says, you are called by God, you should listen. And she sits back down at this point, man, I'm just like, all right, I hear you. I hear you, man. And, and that was kinda, uh, that was the beginning of me starting to really pursue, uh, the word of God. And, and, uh, I wanted to go to school for, you know.

omar: 44:23

Amen. Amen. So all these things are, are, are happening. Did you end up going to school for it or what? What, yeah. So how, how, how does life look through this? Uh, actually, you, I'm wanna ask you this too. Like, you get cleaned up, you're going to church. How does family life look like? Where were you staying at? You're back with dad, you're on your own. How's life

Michael: 44:42

for you during this time? So, yeah, it was a, my, I had a slow process, you know, I got out of, I went to treatment center, I went to a treatment center, and uh, um, uh, I stayed there for a little while and then I get outta treatment. I go into a halfway house, you know, I go to a halfway house in Louisville, Kentucky. I stayed there for a little while and, uh, and it was, it was a good place. Um. But I didn't stay there too awful long. And then I, uh, transitioned to another halfway house, closer to home, which was back in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, uh, to a, to a, a halfway house basically. Yeah. I'm living on my own for the most part, living on my own. And, uh, this is where I'm just like, I don't have a job. I don't have any money, but I'm happy. I have the joy of the Lord. I have a song in my heart. The sun shining, the birds are chirping and churches coming, you know,

omar: 45:37

there, there's no way somebody could be happy with no money and none of this man,

Michael: 45:43

oh, I was so free. I was so free. Man. He did it. You know what I realized on day seven? It stuck. It was like he did it. He did it. You know, it's finished and it is finished. It is finished, and it is

omar: 45:57

good.

Michael: 45:58

And

omar: 45:58

it is is good, man. Yeah. Amen. Yeah,

Michael: 46:01

man.

omar: 46:02

Okay, so you, you're, that's a transition and, uh. You got the desire for, to learn the Bible. Are you learning it just at church or you, you have higher, uh, aspirations as far as like getting into it?

Michael: 46:14

Yeah, so I, uh, I'm hearing it at church. You know, I'm hearing different pastors, different preachers talk about the word. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm doing the best to read and study the word myself. Um, you know, I'm, every night I'm, I'm in the Bible and, uh, I'm reading, I'm reading, I'm reading, and it's starting to click. It's, it's starting to, uh, become my strength, my food, you know, and this is a testament to the word of God and how powerful it is, man, because when I started reading, I had no idea that it was gonna come alive. I had no idea that this was how, because you know, at first the Lord was very, uh, he communicated with me. But that stop, you know, eventually he's not gonna keep holding you up like that. You know, eventually he's gonna point to the word and say, this is how we commune, you know, but the word of God just, it just became, uh, my safe place. You know? I would get in there and I would just read, and I'm, as I'm reading, things are coming to me. Like literally, uh, these thoughts, these higher thoughts are coming to me about what I'm reading and it's coming alive. And if I read it long enough, I'll weep, you know, reading about what Jesus does in the gospel and, uh, his character, and I'm starting to learn and find out who this God is that's pursuing me. And as I'm reading, I'm starting to see like, whoa, the same God that's pursuing me, did this for me. You know? And, and, and why he did it, and what kind of love it takes for a man. Uh, to lay down his life for his son, you know, for us.

omar: 48:09

Amen.

Michael: 48:10

For, you know, Jesus, what Jesus did. Um, so yeah, that was where it started. I just wanted to understand.

omar: 48:16

Yeah.

Michael: 48:17

You know, because, uh, he's pursuing me, he's talking to me, but I don't know him. You know, I wanna know him and, and this is how we get to know him.

omar: 48:26

So, so you're in the world, you're learning more about, about him. Does anything change in your life during this time?

Michael: 48:31

Like as Yeah. Yeah. Well, as I begin to mature a little bit, you know, I start to understand that, um, you know, I, I believe you know, Jesus says, uh, if you love me, you will keep my words, you know, and my father will love him, and we will make our home with him. So it's very important if we love him to obey his words, amen. But if we don't know his words, we can't obey them. You know, so when I'm walking around, still thinking that I can, uh, be the old man, it says, no, man, you've been crucified with him when you were baptized. Now walk in the newness of life. And, uh, it taught, you know, the Bible, uh, talks about righteousness and what righteousness looks like. You know, that integrity and, which is such a foreign concept to me because, man, I was the person that people wouldn't give cash to at Christmas because it was suicide. They wouldn't, they wouldn't give me a$20 bill'cause they thought I would kill myself. And now I'm, now I'm building back integrity with, with family, with friends, with people. And, and what I know in my heart and for the first time is that I know they can trust me because of what he did. Hmm. You know.

omar: 49:53

Amen. Amen. How,

Michael: 49:55

how, how long has it been now

omar: 49:56

that from, from then till today, right here?

Michael: 49:59

Yeah. So I've been completely clean since January of last year. January 4th of last year,

omar: 50:04

man. So it's like a year, getting to a year and a half, almost a year and a months. Yeah. Year and a half. Yeah, man. Awesome. So, one thing I wanna talk about, I know you mentioned God calling you, telling you to get in the Word. I want to talk, I want you to share how, how did you end up at Moody Bible Institute?

Michael: 50:19

Yeah, so, I mean, definitely it was, uh, you know, I believe that, that God worked some things out for me really fast and, and I just wanted to, um, I felt like I was being, uh, also called to, uh, maybe help people to understand, you know, I was, uh, while I was in church, I, I just, I felt like, man, I, I really want to be able to help people. Like they're helping people, you know, look at these guys in church and, and they're just, uh, they have such a way about them and they know the word and, um, you know, I would come to them when I was in pain. And, uh, I seen that and I was like, man, that's a man of God. You know? And this is all humility speaking like, I want to be a man of God. You know, I want to be what my dad wants me to be. Yes. It's in all that I can be. And, uh, I know that I'm not, I know that I'm not some great theologian or some profound speaker. Um, so I believe school is a great resource to understand doctrine, to understand theology, to really get right what you believe so that, you know, when you do stand in a, a, a place or a position, uh, or an as an overseer, you know, you at least you have the right understanding. And, uh, I'm not saying that that's what's gonna happen with my life, but what I am saying is if it does, I'll be ready.

omar: 51:39

Yeah.

Michael: 51:39

You know?

omar: 51:40

Amen. Amen. So how, how did you end up,'cause obviously you're still in, in Indiana at that point, and in real Booty Bible Institutes in downtown Chicago. So how, how, how did you end up hearing about it? How did you end up connecting there? And uh, obviously, man, I think, um, if I'm not mistaken, it's, you know, it's expensive to go there, you know, it's like the heart of downtown. So how, how, how, how did all that work out where you were able to get in there, I guess?

Michael: 52:06

Yeah, no, that's a, that's a really good question. Um, so it started with a book that I was reading. Uh, a friend gave me a book and it was called All In. And, uh, the book was about going all in for the Lord, whatever, and whatever you're doing. Um, but one of the chapters was about a man named DL Moody who, uh, he had a quote and the quote was, is, uh, the world has yet to see a man completely consecrated to God. And with his help, I plan to be that man, quote Dale Moody,

omar: 52:38

the world has yet to see what God could do through a man who is fully consecrated, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like fully, like, uh, fully, but what God could do through him, yo yes, yes. And, and, and what do, um, I desire to be that man, right. Or something. I just, yeah, yeah,

Michael: 52:52

yeah. Yeah. See, yeah, very, something very similar that I've seen it kind of, uh, in, in a little bit different ways. But, but that's the, that's the gist of it. Yes. And when I read that, um, I thought, wow, that's powerful. Well, then I'm watching, I'm watch, I'm going through some old YouTube videos, and I, and I hear a Billy Graham classic of like the, in the eighties, 85, and Billy Graham, you know, uh, regardless of his theology and, and what he taught, the man was a great man. And, uh, I loved him all the way until he passed away. I loved Billy Graham and I was listening to one of his videos and in one of his talks, and he talked about, uh, uh, moody Bible Institute, and he talked about their theology being sound and it being a school of integrity. And he totally supported it. And, and he, you know, as soon as I heard that, I was like, man, I. I just thought to myself, I said, that would be so insane if I could go to Moody Bible Institute to study the word of God. I just thought it was, there was no way it was gonna happen. Right. But I just thought it was so, you know, I told somebody about it and I normally wouldn't do that. So it was kind of strange. But I told'em, they said, you should try, you should, you should apply. Well, as you begin to apply, you realize there's money involved. So I start to apply and there's like a fee just to apply, you know? Well, it just so happened that this fee was waived by somebody somewhere. So the fee was waived and, and I don't know if this happens for everybody, but it was for me.

omar: 54:16

Yeah.

Michael: 54:17

So the first fee was waived. And I remember praying, I said, well, I don't even got 50 bucks, Lord, so I don't know how you're gonna make this happen.'cause I don't even have enough to, to pay for the application fee, which is, I think it was 50 bucks. It may have been a hundred, but I didn't have it. You know, I had just enough of rent and, uh, I mean, he was keeping me on a tight budget and, uh, I had everything I needed though.

omar: 54:38

Yeah.

Michael: 54:39

And, and it just happened like that. Well after, after that, uh, that first initial, uh, fee, you have to write some essays and you have to get a pastoral reference. And as I began to write this stuff, man, I just, I just trust God. And I just poured out my heart, man. I didn't hold nothing back. I wrote'em. I said, look, man, I was a junkie. You know, I was a heroin addict. And, uh, the Lord saved me and I wanna study his word. Uh, I wanna know his word and I wanna become better, you know? And, uh, I, I, you know, wrote him and, um, they accepted it. And they called me and said, man, you would be a great fit and we would love to have you. And, um, so then, then there was other hoops that had to happen. You know, it was, uh, then I, I had my place to stay and, and a vehicle, all this stuff, you know?'cause I was still pretty, still pretty new.

omar: 55:24

Yeah.

Michael: 55:24

You know, uh, I hadn't been cleaned very long.

omar: 55:28

Yeah.

Michael: 55:28

Only been cleaned, you know, a little over a year at this time. So it was like, uh, I didn't have everything figured out financially. Definitely not spiritually, you know. I got a yearning in my heart and I know him. So, uh, that's all you need. Yeah, man, he made it all happen. If I were to tell you all the different people that contributed, you know, somebody gave me$350 here, somebody donated a thousand here. I mean, it was like, if I told you all the different steps, we'd be here for a few hours.

omar: 55:59

Yeah, no, but, uh, so, but it did take people, uh, funding you, I guess is, what I wanted to know too, like, so people are paying for you to, to attend there.

Michael: 56:08

Yeah. So with Moody, they, uh, the donor, they have a, a program where, uh, and this is, this is actually good for your viewers too, you know. Uh, moody has a program where if you are accepted into the program, if you're accepted into Moody, if you're a good fit for the school, they have a program where a donor will actually cover your tuition. And tuition is, uh, uh, I think it's close to like 10,000, if I'm not mistaken. I'm, I'm probably wrong. But, uh, something around there. But, uh, there was a donor that, that contributes for that. Um, and then, so what you're left with is room and board. Uh, so I was able to get, uh, a Pell Grant from the state, you know, um, because of my income at the time was low enough. Uh, and that pretty much covered it all. And then, and then obvi, I had, um, expenses, outside expenses, and this is where my, uh, recovery family, um, my support system, my church, you know, this is where they come in.

omar: 57:06

Okay.

Michael: 57:07

And, uh, it, it ain't happening without them. Every, every little dollar that came to me, I needed, I needed for something, whether it was gas to get there. I mean, I remember when I, when I got to school and I, everything's said and done, and I'm sitting on my bed. I probably have a hundred dollars to my name, but. By the time I sat on that bed, the Lord already provided a job at the school. I had a job at the school. The moment I walked in, the first conversation I had was with the head of engineering. He said, what do you do for a living? I said, well, I've done some hvac. And he said, I'll be back. Brought me an application. I mean, I wasn't even checked in yet.

omar: 57:47

No,

Michael: 57:48

I had no money though. I mean, I had enough to make it there, man. Yeah. But I had a job the moment I sat on that bed and I just sat back and I said, you did it again. I don't know how you did it, but you got me here. So,

omar: 58:00

man, I know that, that things were sharing all that, man, that's, people need to hear though.'cause I, I, I know it's like, uh, how many hours was it from there to, to Moody like you? Yeah, it's only,

Michael: 58:10

uh, four and a half hours. Okay. Yeah.

omar: 58:12

Yeah. Yeah. Close to five hours. So, so how's, how's uh, uh, college life for you

Michael: 58:15

Been, uh, there? Man, it's, it's great. It really is. It. It took a little bit to get used to, you know, I am an older student. I have a little bit of a different background man, but I'm so grateful for the guys that, especially the guys on my floor. And, uh, I'm in the Colbert sub building, so Colby 11, my, my friends on Colby 11, man, they just welcome me in with open, open arms, you know, and they've been, they've been so kind, and the staff there has been so kind. The professors are, you know, they're good professors. They know their stuff and, and they're all very kind. Um. You know, it's just been, it's been a good experience so far, and I'm, I'm learning a ton. I'm growing a ton. You know, people say that going to Bible school's, like getting 10 years worth of spiritual growth, jam packed, because it's tough, you know, it really is. There's so many personalities and you really gotta, you gotta maintain, uh, your connection with the Lord. If you, if you let your connection with the Lord Slack, it's like, it's seen and it's like dealt with, like, what's going on with you, bro? Like, something's going on. It's like, I gotta be, I gotta be in prayer. I have to be in prayer. And you have to be connected to him. And I believe that that's on purpose. You know? I believe that he is like, come on now, you know? Yeah. You're getting equipped, so it's time to sign the role.

omar: 59:32

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, you mentioned a lot of good guys. How, how did you end up connecting with Nia House? Because, um, that, that, that's where I met you. We had a, a breakfast meeting. It was on a Saturday morning. Uh, basically for those that don't know, Nia House National Ministries. They do prison ministry, uh, throughout the state of Illinois, but also they go throughout the country. And I believe it's even been like internationally, uh, pastor Manny Mill. Uh, but we have a quarterly breakfast meeting where the people that are involved in prison ministry, they gather and, you know, just to, yeah. You know, they share, you know, what's been going on, pray for one another and, uh, bring new volunteers in. And that's where, where you, you go where I met you. But how did you end up going to, to that meeting?

Michael: 1:00:15

Yeah, I had a, uh, a person, you know, I've, I've obviously I've been in, uh, been to prison before, so I was thinking when I heard of the ministry, I was, uh, I was like, whoa, man, that may be something that, you know, I've always wanted to minister to inmates'cause I was one for one. And then, um, you know, I thought it would be a, a good place for me to spend more, spend some time, you know, um, maybe giving back a little bit. So yeah, I really, I pursued it myself, you know. And, um, I asked if, asked around. And I got connected with the right people and, uh, they got me there. Unfortunately, things haven't worked out with me going into Cook County and, and you know, there's some things going on with that. But, uh, you know, as far as, hopefully, hopefully I get in, you know, hopefully I do get in. But, um, yeah,

omar: 1:01:01

that there'll be a blessing to to to, to have you there, man, to join the team. Yeah. Because, uh, uh, the reason I ask is there's, uh, some guys from Moody that, uh, that, that go with us. Yeah, yeah. You know, so on, uh, Monday nights and they're good guys. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They're solid. Yeah. You know, it is been a blessing to see, uh, man, there's a brother from o Overseas. I forget what, what country he's from, but man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it wrong, but man, he's from, uh, Europe. He's over here studying and man, he be going in there faithfully with us, and man, it's, it's, it's awesome to see these young guys, man, 19, 20, 21 years old and have a desire, man to share the gospel in there.

Michael: 1:01:38

So what are you studying at Moody? Yeah, so, um, my major is pastoral care and, uh, with a minor in biblical preaching.

omar: 1:01:46

Okay, gotcha. So how, how many years are you planning? Uh, uh, it's a four year degree. Gotcha. Yeah. And you're barely in the beginning, huh? Just in the beginning. Alright, so what, what, uh, so you've been there. What's, what, what's God's, uh, speaking to you right now in this season? Like, what, what, what's going on with you right now?

Michael: 1:02:02

Yeah, man, I, I think that, um, I'm definitely gaining a burden, uh, for the lost. And I know that, I think that, that there's a time when that happens for, for maybe everyone who, uh, decides to pursue a, a greater calling in this. But, uh, when I say a, a burden, it's, it's just getting real simple, you know, like, um, how do I effectively get the gospel to someone? And then once they have received the gospel, how do I get or how do I, uh, um. Help them to understand the next move, right? Like, like, yes, Jesus, this, Jesus we speak of offers salvation. So what's next? You know? And what we know is, you know, we repent and we be baptized. We know what what it looks like. Yeah. But, uh, I guess getting to a place to where I can, uh, present that to people in a way that's, um, simple and, uh, humble. You know?'cause sometimes this is the sort of the spirit. Amen. But sometimes I want to use it like the hammer, you know? And, uh, that's not always the best way, you know, it could be, uh,

omar: 1:03:22

counterproductive at times, right? Yeah.

Michael: 1:03:25

Yeah. It can.

omar: 1:03:25

When we could, uh, we could use it or it's been misused against us and Yeah, like I heard somebody say it could be that, that they misuse it. We just, we, we don't want to hear it, you know, back then, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. We just now, um, you, your dad, what, what does your dad say about you today? Like where you're at, you know, what, how, how's that relationship with him and maybe family and friends that hear about what you're doing now, a year and a half sober,

Michael: 1:03:53

you

omar: 1:03:53

know?

Michael: 1:03:54

Yeah. They're, uh, they're proud of me, man. They're really proud of me and, um, they're proud of me. Um, for many reasons. Uh, they definitely have a, they have a firm understanding that most of the things going on in my life are not of my making. So they're grateful for the one who's making it happen, you know, which I'm, I'm, you know, I'm so grateful that they have that understanding. You know, they don't say, you know, great job for all you've done. They say, we thank God for what he's done for you. You know, because I was, I was literally can't get right man. I, I, uh, they thought I was gonna die in my addiction. I'm sure they did. And, uh, I wouldn't blame'em, you know? Um, so my dad actually, um, he wrote me a little birthday card, uh, on my birthday, which was in February. And, um, he said, Mikey, that's what he calls me. Mikey. Guess who? God's amazing Grace has. You see you soon, dad. You know, just, just so simple and kind and, uh, just a reminder that I'm in his hand, man.

omar: 1:05:06

Amen. Yeah. It's the best place to be for, for you and for anybody, man. Yeah. Get, get in his hands. I know you brought the Bible, man. Is there anything that you wanted to share? Any scripture, anything that you wanna share with the listeners? You know, maybe the god's, you know, like, I don't know if there's something.

Michael: 1:05:22

Yeah, man, I, I, uh, I would say Acts 2 38. All right?

omar: 1:05:27

You, you, you wanna open it up and read it, man. Yeah. Then share whatever God's placed on your heart, man. if anybody's, seeing this and you guys don't have a Bible, man, send me a email wrong. Number two, strong chicago@gmail.com or go on, uh, uh, social media, Facebook or wrong strong Chicago podcast. Uh, Instagram, uh, w2, SCO podcast. Send me a DM and I'm gonna get a, a Bible out to you. We, I actually have, uh, some that are actually have the city of Chicago Undercover. I was blessed by those through, through a ministry. Uh, so yeah, if, if, if you need a bible, if, if, if you're, if you're listening to, to my brother here talking about how God told a man, read the scriptures. And if you're hearing this testimony, man, something's telling you read the scriptures and you don't have a Bible, man, I'll be happy to send you one for free. And man, that, that'll be the best thing that you could do is start getting into God's word. I love something you said that, man, that the word is alive, it's active, and it's speaking to us, man. That, that word is alive. You know, wake up and live. Wake up and live, man.

Michael: 1:06:44

Go ahead brother. Thank you, man. All right. Uh, yeah. So this is Acts 2 38. And, um, to give a little context, um. At this point, uh, the Apostle Peter is with all the disciples. And, um, the people who are around him are, they're the Jewish people who have, uh, for the most part, they have crucified Jesus. They're the ones who, um, they were in the crowd stirred up and they say, crucify him. And they did not believe that he was the son of God while he walked on the earth. They did not accept him as teacher. And when they came to Peter, they said, uh, um, I'll read 37. First says, now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart and sit, hold on, I'm gonna read 36. Sorry guys. It says, therefore let all the House of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do in Acts 2 38? Then Peter said to them, repent and let every one of you be baptized in Jesus, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And yeah, man, I I wanted to, uh, this, this passage is, is near and dear to my heart because we need, for one, we need power.

omar: 1:08:20

Amen.

Michael: 1:08:21

We need the oil. And, uh, you know, this is a, if anyone uh, comes to you and says, how am I saved? How am I saved? Oh, well, this is a, this is a pretty clear, uh, passage for the ones who crucified Jesus. They said, how are we saved? Yeah. And he said this, this you repent. And repentance would be a turning away. Uh, or a for forsaking of sin and turning towards God. So we repent with godly sorrow. And, uh, a a repentant heart goes to God. Hungry Lord, desperate, and you be baptized. And it doesn't say that we're baptized for church admission or for church membership, which I know some, some churches believe that or, or preach that. But this says that we be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. So you, you let the waters wash your soul, you'd be baptized washing those sins away, and you come up new and, uh, then you can receive. The gift of the Holy Spirit, which is the power from on high what we need. Amen. So, yeah,

omar: 1:09:40

man. Yeah. I, I, I I love that it takes power to, to walk this out, man. Yeah. I know. People have told me, man, Omar, like, especially in the beginning, man, you have willpower, man. You have strength. It's not me. Yeah. Like, I know me. I know, I know what I like, you know, it's, uh, it's something greater than us, sir. So definitely need that Holy Spirit power, man. That's right, man. Michael, man, uh, thank you for being on here. But I usually, you know, give my guests an opportunity. Any final words, anything we didn't get a chance to talk about that you wanted to share? And then, and then if you could close us out in a prayer as well.

Michael: 1:10:17

Yeah, yeah. I would just say that, uh, for anyone listening, you know, um, don't wait to go to him. You know, don't wait to go to him. I waited. It's too long because I thought I was too broken, too lost. I did not, I didn't believe that he could, that he could truly help me. I thought maybe he could, he could help everyone but me, you know? Uh, but, but my closing remarks would be that don't wait, man. Get to him. Get to Jesus. Get to God. Get to call out, cry out from all your, with all your heart, man. And, uh, watch and see if he doesn't change everything.

omar: 1:10:58

Amen. Yes,

Michael: 1:10:59

you will. Yeah. Thank you so much, man. Oh, no, no. The

omar: 1:11:01

event. Thank you for being out here, man. I was blessed by your story. Blessed by what God's doing. You know that, that fire, that desire that you have for the word. Amen. Brother, if you could, you could close us out in a prayer.

Michael: 1:11:11

Sure. Amen. Uh, dear Lord Jesus, I want to thank you. Thank you for all that you do and all that you are, Lord. Uh, you are high and lifted up the mountains. Bow down to you. The oceans obey your command and the rocks cry out, Lord. And, uh, we just wanna lift you up. We love you Jesus. I thank you for wrong to strong podcast. I thank you for Omar and everything he's doing for the kingdom. Lord, I pray that you bless him. Bless this podcast. May it go far and, uh, may go long, Lord. Yes.

omar: 1:11:46

In

Michael: 1:11:46

Jesus' name. Amen.

omar: 1:11:47

In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. And with that, uh, we're gonna get ready to to, to wrap up. Uh, Matthew four 16 reads, the people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned alongside my guest, Michael Crosby. I'm Omar Calvio, and we are wrong too strong.