"Former D.E.A. Chief of Global Operations" James L. Capra - Guide to Leadership & Faith

This episodes feature James L. Capra, former D.E.A. Chief of Global Operations. A veteran of law enforcement and military service, discussing his life journey from overcoming crime and violence to becoming a CEO. Capra highlights the profound influence of his father, faith, and supportive wife in shaping his career and personal growth. The narrative underscores themes of hope, integrity, and perseverance, with detailed accounts of leadership, the challenges of law enforcement, facing temptations, and maintaining a strong moral compass. Additionally, it explores the intricate balance between professional duties and family life, emphasizing intentional living, faith's pivotal role, and the power of a supportive spouse. Personal anecdotes of overcoming adversities, staying true to one's values, and finding new beginnings are recurrent, providing listeners with valuable lessons on the importance of forgiveness, accountability, and the sanctuary of a loving home.

www.frontlineleadershipgroup.com

Transcript

0:15

From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago and from around the country. Some of them were gang members, drug dealers, incarcerated victims, and perpetrators of violence. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, Hope, faith and perseverance. These have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong.

Omar: 0:56

I'm your host. My name is Omar Calvillo. And tonight you guys are in for a treat. I got my brother. His name is James L. Capra. He's currently a CEO and founder of the frontline leadership group. Uh, they're dedicated to developing tomorrow's leaders today. Mr. James Capra has successfully managed and led thousands of multi generational employees during his government tenure, having served in numerous leadership positions. He now shares his successful strategies on how to effectively develop outstanding organizational leaders across generational boundaries in the global business arena. Jimmy, as he is known by his friends and colleagues, retired after nearly three decades with the Drug Enforcement Administration. Prior to his retirement, Jimmy served as a Chief of Global Operations, responsible for 227 domestic offices and 86 foreign offices in 67 countries. Prior to his DEA career, Jimmy served in the U. S. Navy, U. S. Navy Reserves, Air National Guard, and is a military intelligence officer for the U. S. Army Reserves. W welcome to the podcast, brother.

Jimmy: 2:06

Thanks, brother! Thank you for having me on, man. I gotta tell you, I am, I'm just so So, honored that you had having me on, man. I really mean that. And so, you know, Bill Faye, who's, a brother of ours. I've known Bill for well over 20 years. And, uh, when he got me connected, I said, this is great. Would you like to, I said, heck yeah, man, come on, let's do it.

Omar: 2:26

Thank you so much for being here. That was actually going to be one of the first questions I was going to ask you. Like, I was going to ask you how does someone with all these, you know, our credentials would all this career, uh, end up on a podcast with a guy who has no credentials, you know, credentials, you know,

Jimmy: 2:41

you got, well, you know what, brother, you got all the credentials in the world, knowing Jesus. And I don't say that because it's, uh, it's funny, in my line of work and my career. I was doing, um, I had a radio show for a year and I often have guys on and a lot of these guys are warriors and backgrounds. And I, well, it's, it's funny cause people would ask me, it goes, how do you contend with being a Christian and doing your line of work, locking people up and investigating people? I says, I don't know how to do it without it. I don't know how I'd survive without it when you see the underside. But I'm a, I'm a guy that barely got out of high school. I was told throughout my high school years that, um, I was never going to get anywhere. I was told that we were, you know, I was a loser. I was told that my family was a bunch of losers. And there were seven of us growing up. My dad was a. Was a, uh, retired New York City cop who got hurt on the job real bad. And, um, uh, anyway, What a terrible student. But, uh, yeah, so I, I was pretty much told throughout my, my, um, Formative years, outside my family. My family was, uh, My dad, we think had a 10th grade education. My mom, uh, um, I think she had a high school graduation, but they were good parents. Strict, strict, strict. But uh, uh, but the rest outside community would say, you know, in, in school and stuff. Even teachers would look at us and shake their heads. So that's. You know, that's not, did it, did it bother me? No, you know, we grew up kind of tough, you know, because of my old man and his family came from Italy. My mom's family came from Portugal. So we, we were pretty, uh, we probably weren't tough, like street tough. You know what I'm saying, brother? That took a while. That took a while for me when I came on the, on the job. But I mean, we were tough in handling criticism and stuff like that, but. The one good thing that I'm, I'm, I'm number one thing I'm thankful for is, you know, my parents got me introduced to Jesus when I was relatively young and it wasn't this, you know, and I'm sure you have to deal with it sometimes. It wasn't this happy, holy, healthy, wealthy club, right? It wasn't this, Oh, everything is fine. You know, sometimes life still sucked. Sometimes bad things happen, you know, you got it and you have to contend with that. And, uh, but that was the best thing that happened. I, you know, gave my life to the Lord when I was relatively young, but You know, I joined the Navy and realized, man, the world's got a lot of great stuff out there that I want to see. I want to taste, I want to do, I didn't, I didn't know you can go to these kinds of clubs. I didn't know you could do this. So I kind of went off the railroad tracks for, you know, for a while. And when I got out after my first tour and started school, wind up meeting my wife, who was the best thing that ever happened. We've been, we've been, uh, what's better now, uh, almost 42 years. With six kids and stuff. So yeah, she was, she's my outside of the Lord. She was my North star. It still is, buddy. Yeah. Um, you know,

Omar: 5:32

you, you know, okay. Okay. I can ask you something because I know, you know, you, you went into the, uh, what'd you say? Then, um, what was the first one you went to the reserves? Oh, the

Jimmy: 5:39

first, the first service I went to was the Navy

Omar: 5:42

or the Navy. Okay. You know, I know, like I told you before we started recording that I watched one of the interviews you did and you were talking about your dad and I believe he was a veteran of the Korean War. Yeah, my

Jimmy: 5:53

dad, my dad, uh, left school, he was in 10th grade, he dropped out, you know, to join the army and fight in Korea. And then, uh, is what you, what you did and, and came home, uh, um, you know, went on the police department, married my mom. And then, uh, you're not even 16 years later, really horrible wreck. He was a motor officer, motorcycle focus back and neck and which, which sounds terrible, but it was probably a blessing for his children because we wound up moving out of New York city to upstate New York and, and, uh, the big piece of property up there. But, uh, yeah. Yeah, but all of a sudden, so there was six boys and a girl that all of, you know, all of us actually including my sister, my sister, uh, wind up marrying my best friend growing up was a little bit older than me and they, they both became pastors for 40 years and he's the guy that he's the guy used to run around the back road, smoking cigarettes and drinking beer, solving the problems of the world. You know, he meets my sister, you know, and I'm like, what the heck, man, I'm no longer in the front seat with them anymore. And, uh, uh, when I got married, went back into the service for a while, he, uh, amazing, he's an amazing story, you know, and, and just decided that's enough. And, and, um, started, uh, started attending a seminary and he's pastored a church now for over 40 years. So yeah, pretty cool. How God does stuff, man. It's, you know, I, you know, another, another guy, this story is amazing because another guy that people would look at and go, man, you're, you're not, you're not going to go anywhere, you know, one of those. So,

Omar: 7:24

okay. You know what I want to ask you about, about your dad? Cause it sounds like you had like an influence on you. You know, he was in the military. He eventually became a police officer and I was hearing you talk about like. One of the things he did, cause I know like, uh, military and, and, and the police, I mean, you're pretty tough and you deal with tough people, but there were some things that, that, that he taught you about the people that he was like, uh, interacting with, like how to look at them and how to even treat those that were out there breaking the law. You, you want to share a, uh, so

Jimmy: 7:55

yeah, you know what, one of the things about my dad with the 10th grade education, like I said, he's a tough guy. I didn't talk back to my father till. My second year in the Navy. And even then I was afraid to talk back. So it's going to hit me with a two by four, but, uh, um, I'd just be an honest man, but he was tough as nails, but he was a good man. I mean, we lost him really young and he, I mean, it was just a, he was a good man. But one of the things about my father was. Uh, my father would tell it, tell you all the time, treat everybody with dignity and respect. I don't care where they came from. I don't care, you know, who they are. I don't care the color. I don't care. I don't care who they are. And the story that he told me once is really kind of galvanized it. I, again, I have written a handful of books, Omar. And believe me, if, if I have, I don't know why I would have teachers that would be so alive, or if some of the friends that I had or acquaintance I had in high school, if they, if they looked my, my bio up and said, wait a minute, this guy went to college and read, they wrote books. They'd be saying he's a liar, man. He didn't, he didn't do any of that stuff. He got it from the internet. But one of the things that I start writing, one of the. I talked about my dad and I realized how much he cared for people. Cause he was a tough guy. I mean, it was, it was known to, I, we didn't, we didn't have in my house. We didn't have these, uh, you know, like sometimes the movies predict here's this, you know, European family sitting down and the dad's talking nicely. My, my father, now that I come up behind you when I was younger, just smacked me upside the head. Not hard or anything, it wasn't hurt me. And I go, hey pal, what was that for? He goes, cause you're up to something, I just know it. I know you're up to something.

Omar: 9:26

A preemptive strike. Yeah,

Jimmy: 9:27

yeah, exactly man, exactly. But, but one of the things about my father would say, he would, he would tell you all the time, he'd say, a liar is worse than a thief. I want to let you know that it's a liar. It's worse than a thief. He said, be the kind of guy. That's how he grew up. He says, be the kind of person that people look towards and they want them on their team, they want them in their unit, not because you're the smartest guy, it's because you care about things and you want to do things right. He said, that's it. So he was big on integrity. He was big. On your position as a man, what manhood was all about, you know, what man, you know, manhood wasn't all about that. You know, the, the macho go out, you know, try to sleep with the debts. He was, you know, he, he wasn't against it, but he never, he never used any of those fluffy words, brother. He would just sit there and say things. I was, I was, he was telling me a story one time, this will encapsulate it. He says, he remembered when he would, he, when he taught, he loved being a cop and, and he would tell these stories, but they were never about. You know, chasing people, gunfights and everything. He would talk about people on his beat. He would talk about the people that were eking out an existence. And I'll never forget one particular story, uh, that he was talking about. They had to go around and they had to round up the local prostitutes that were really coming. He worked in Midtown when Midtown was kind of like Hollywood. I mean, it was late fifties into the sixties. And it really was Midtown used to be so it was a for for a beat cop who worked, you know, the beat and walking. It was a pretty good beef, but he had to. You know, he had to go around. They were saying, Hey, you gotta, you know, round up these gals and bring them in and everything. And he'd stop and he, he kind of just looked away. He goes, you know what, no matter why they did what they did with their bodies, what the reason was, he goes, I never forgot that they were women. And I tried to do the best to treat them like that. Then he would stop and he'd look at me. He goes, always treat people with dignity and respect. And it took me a little bit time to realize he had to do his job. But he treated people. Well, I mean, he, I mean, he, here, here. So here are these girls who sell themselves on the street. And my father's thinking they're still women. They still need to be treated like, you know, like women and stuff. And I think some of that sometimes is lost. You know, when we're, we're trying to raise kids and do stuff, we're trying to use all these ideas that are out there just saying, Hey man, try to treat people with dignity. I don't care. And you know, I carried that in my career, man. I, you know, during some of the, some of the guys and gals that I've arrested over my course of my career, I remember sitting down with some of them. And listen, I'm not, I'm not telling you, I, I tried to preach to him and everything else, but I, one guy comes, he was going to do some major times, it was pretty big organization, slinging some major, you know, Some major coke and he just caught him by the shorthair. As you can tell, he was a young guy. And I remember sitting there thinking to myself, this guy, he threw everything away for that money, man, everything away. And people say, Hey, do you feel good when people get locked up? I've been, I lived in court half of my career, prosecute people. And I've got to be honest with you, you sit there and I don't, I don't think I've ever, um, first of all, no, I've never been shot at by any bad guy. So, you know, I don't, I don't have that story. You know what I mean? I'm thankful Lord, you know, I never had to shoot at anybody. I mean, I stuck my head, my gun and a lot of guys faces. You know, a lot of bad guys faces, but I've never had to. And the only time I did shoot my gun is there was a pit bull charging me and I missed anyway. So it's a good thing. I didn't have to but, but I think one of the things about being a Christian is you sit in there. And you're watching these men in particular, mostly men getting sentenced. And my heart is literally breaking, thinking their family at the whole nine yard, the whole, it's just being tossed down the toilet because of frigging money, man, because that, that greed and that desire for power. And money and I remember telling this one kid used to be was a formerly a Marine, you know, he's involved in an organization with his family. And he just said, they're so stupid took over what we wind up bagging him with over 300 kilos. And, and, uh, he sat there, I go, listen, dude, all I can tell you is there's hope. I know there's a big, looks like a white, you know, light at the end of the tunnel and it ain't a train. I said, you're going to have to decide, you know, what are you going to do from here out? Who are you going to rely on? And I said, I can just tell you there's still a God in heaven who knows that you exist. You know, those are the kind of, I never got, I never, and I'm not trying to be Joe Humble, brother, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to, oh, he's such a, you know, I'm a chucklehead, but, but I always, it always kind of grieved me to watch guys get sentenced to major time and stuff. And some guys, there's some guys that are still in jail, but you see your hearts is breaking for them. But you know, the only, the only thing that's going to help them, it's not, it's, it may not, it might not get them out of jail or anything, but in eternity, Right. That's when, that's really when it matters in eternity. And so you asked me, you know, you asked me about some of that. My father's, my father had a big influence on how we look at people and how, Hey, trust me, there's been times, you know, there's been times on a street fight with somebody that you want to frigging pull their heads off. That's, that's gotta be, you know, you're, and especially if you're fighting. You know, for your life or something, you know, Hey man, if I don't get a control of this bad stuff is going to happen fast. And most of the time we outnumbered the bad guys, but, but I, I never from me, from my heart, I never took, you know, great pleasure into watching the demise of some, you know, some bad guy somewhere. It was his fault. Her fault, but I didn't see it. How great is that? He's gonna, I just, my heart was like, man, you know, you know, and I always, you always give my best to when you, when we did talk to him to talk to him with the level of, you know, respect, not that they were some kind of piece of garbage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They committed a crime. Yeah. This, that, you know, they're human beings. And so I did my, you know, did my best in my profession and what I thought was not only responsible for me, but, but as a Christian, you know, to talk to people, you know, as if I don't hold anything over their heads. You know what I mean, man? That's, that's the kind of impact it is. And I can do the same thing at work.

Omar: 15:45

You know what? I was going to ask you, I know you mentioned like in, like in high school, you weren't like the brightest. So obviously, you know, you made it to a big career. Hey, but maybe God's grace, but, uh, you know, one thing I know you were on the Bible study on that Friday and two things that stood out to me, uh, well, one of them, I know you, you, you mentioned God, obviously that helped you, but the other one was your wife as well. A lot of the men that I've had on this podcast that have been, you know, like successful, they always bring up the wife, the praying wife or wife that encourages them. So you want to tell us about that? Uh, maybe, uh,

Jimmy: 16:25

I gotta, yeah, I got a, um, so I got out of the, Got out of the Navy, started school, never thought, never, never thought I was going to, I said, how am I going to get to college? I mean, I'm an idiot. And I don't, like I said, that sounds good, Omar. Oh, that guy's being humble. But I, I knew academically that I was a box of rocks. I didn't, I didn't do anything. And I don't, you know, it's funny because we, We looked back and we knew the kids who were using dope and we knew the kids who didn't do it. Well, I was a good kid, but I was one of those kids. I was one of the guys who go, I don't know if that guy could spell his name. You know, that's, that's like, I was like, you know, that was me, man. And so I, I found a small school in upstate New York that I went to. In the first day of school, I met what would be my, Michelle, I met my wife and, and she floored me now because she was a good looking woman, but everything I got to know her over the course of a few weeks and her moral compass, what it was and her drive and everything. And, and what I did, man, is I went to the site cause I, within about two weeks, I knew there's something about this woman. There's something about it. And, uh, I told a buddy of mine, it was a Navy buddy of mine who grew up in Spanish Harlem. Uh, we made a pact to go to school together. I said, dude, I'm going to marry this girl. He goes, man, what's wrong with you? He goes, what the heck, man? We just got here. I go, I'm just telling you, man, I'm going to marry this girl. All true story. So. When Shelly and I started dating, I started thinking to myself, I am, I am a class A chucklehead. I'm going to screw this up, or the same thing that I was doing in the Navy, this is going to catch up to me. You know, man, how, how good God is. I went to the side of the building where she was staying, and I just started praying. I said, Lord, you know, I'll screw this thing up. I said, please, if I'm not supposed to be in this relationship, if I'm not, if she's not for me, then you got to shut down. I said, because, and I was kind of blue. I said, cause I'll F it up. That's basically what I tell, how I, it's how I talk to the Lord. I know it's not good, but it's, but that's, I was being honest, man. I just, I will, I will screw this thing up. And I, and I really was just sharing, it was just my heart. Well, when we start getting more dormant, you know, I asked her to marry me about three months later and that, like I said, that's about 42, 43 years ago. Um, and then she came, she, you know, she grew up Catholic and came to the Lord through my family. My mom was a, was a prayer warrior and she's one of the most resilient women. I just, my biggest advocate, my biggest, when I would. You know, I was finishing, I was finishing school. I was working and I was in the surf and it was in the reserves and, uh, anybody else who would say, Hey, what are you doing? How come you didn't, you know, she was constantly pushing. I had this desire and this dream to become a federal agent. Never think, didn't think I was going to be able to do it. Cause I know that got, see, I know the guy looking back in the mirror at the time. I know that guy and that guy is, you know, that guy is secretly in his mind is a, is a loser. He's not going to be able to make it and, and all this other stuff. Well, he did make it by God's and because of my wife. So God, here it is. God's never whispered to me. He's never spoke to me, but you know, through like people like my wife or other people, you know, that men have come in contact with in my life. He's put people in my, put my, my wife in my life to say, Hey, there's the mark. There's the North star rock and roll. Let's go. And she's always been like that, dude. I, for weeks at a time, I live on this. I live on the street on doing investigative, I mean, live on the, on the street, in the back of a car, she's pregnant has one, or we have two or three and, and I'm doing this and you would figure you'd come home and never. Never once did she say, what are you doing? What's wrong with you? As a matter of fact, and I know I'm rambling brother, and I'm sorry. It was good. It was good. Yeah. You know, came home one time. She hadn't seen her parent. She hadn't seen her folks in about two years. We were living in LA at the time. And, uh, I was just living on the street. I was chasing this group of really, really super bad guys that were using tractor trails to move dope. And I hooked onto one and me and my partner and, uh, I came home one night, just one night out of about two weeks. Her parents were there for like a week and a half. I saw him for like three hours and they were, they were wonderful people. Her dad was a former World War II guy and everything. And I remember coming home. I was a, I was a smoker back then. So I'd sit at the end of the table. They were sleeping. It's 11 o'clock at night. All I want to do is take a shower, grab a new set of clothes and head out the door. I tell people. Probably any other wife would have been saying, what are you doing? My parents are here. This, that, and the other thing, first thing you say, how's it going? I said, it's good. I said, I think we're close. Blah, blah, blah. I said, how's mom and dad? She goes, well, you know, her mother started asking her, how can you live like this? They, they liked me. They, you know, they, There wasn't that. How can you live like this? How can you, how do you do this? This is incredible. This is not how a marriage should be. And my wife, because she's my wife, my partner, she says, you don't understand. This is my, this is my husband's career. This is his passion. And this is his calling. She goes, we're good. We're good with this. He's, he's going to be fine. And then people would often ask her goes, they would say to her, Cause, cause we wind up eventually having six kids, they would say, what do you do when he goes off to work? What do you mean? How do you, you don't know if he's doing this. You don't know. She goes, I don't have time to worry about it. I just give it to the Lord. So Lord, you got this, you know, you, you got, so that's kind of, that's the only. So you, you know, you heard of Proverbs 31, right? She's a Proverbs 31 wife. And I don't say that lightly. You read Proverbs 31, man, it's powerful. It's powerful, man. You know, uh, uh, nothing is lost on this. When people say Proverbs 31, I go, that's, that's a pretty powerful thing. That's how my wife, I mean, even, Even my kids now that they're grown and have kids of their own, look at their mother and go, how did you, how'd you do that? I do the same thing. Cause I had it easy. Hey, listen, man, I'm the dude that went out, caught bad guys, you know, got promotions, got patted on the back. You know, everybody's, Ooh, look at that guy. Meanwhile, here's this gal, by the way, she's smarter than I am. She has a real, she has a math degree and a computer science degree. She could be the CEO IBM. No joke, Omar. She could be. But early on, one of the things that, yes, again, I'm going on, but one of the things that we talked about incessantly when we're first dating is children, moral compass, careers, all this other stuff. And, and it's probably why we were attracted. She said, uh, you know, we, her, her thing was when it was time to have children, I'm, we're raising our kids. I'm not having, it's just what, I mean, it's hard to do today. I know with income, listen, I get it. And I would never tell anybody else. How you should or shouldn't do that, it's up to them. But, but that's how she was, man. That's where, you know, she's driven. She was just driven out, driven with her family, pouring into her kids. She's a prayer warrior, you know. She'd also look at me from time to time and look at me and go, You're a little bit too big for your britches, aren't you there, son? So, she You missed, you know, you may think you missed a cool guy, big shot at work, but hey, guess what? Hey, I'm not taking out the garbage and doing the dishes Once in a while,

Omar: 23:37

Hey, get you eat some humble pie.

Jimmy: 23:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I'm gonna make light of it, but it is important, you know, in my, in my bedroom, I have a, I have a big sign that if somebody gave me, it says, uh, one life and one wife. You know, we've, we've lived in a time where, Hey, we get tired of it. Let's try something new. We'll get tired of something. We try something new. I call them collectors. Sometimes. And listen, sometimes things happen in marriages. I get it, man. And I'm, I understand that sometimes things happen, but, but we, we promise you said about my, one of the things we promise is we were never going to give up. And, and, you know, we never getting up. So we, we went through seasons like everything else, man. We went through season financially. We went through seasons. I'm sure she did look at it, go, what the hell am I doing with this guy? You know? So, uh, but I, but I, I did my best to be the best husband. I can be the best father that I could be. And, and I promised myself that I would run from stuff. And it's the one thing about, I think for me, me personally, It's getting to know the Lord and getting into the word and reading. I do my best to run from stuff, you know, run from certain opportunities that were going to take me down a road, you know, run from, you know, sometimes living on the street for a while, then you go out with the guys to have a couple of beers, you know, and sit and relax. And the next thing, you know, there's this chip, that chip over here. And I'm thinking, I'm getting out of here. I'm running from that stuff because you know, different than anybody else, man. The fricking enemy, he'll really get in there in a heartbeat. If you start reeling your butt in, man, and it becomes easier and easier to be involved. Listen, I'm not trying to preach it. I'm some kind of, you know, where we

Omar: 25:15

preach.

Jimmy: 25:15

So we do my best to tell people, man, you gotta run. And that's what I'm told by my sons and daughters. I said, you know, when you find your mate, when you find. That man or woman that's, that's, uh, uh, equally yoked like you, it ain't over because, because life starts throwing you stuff and then the enemy will throw you stuff. You become a mark, you know, you're young, you're good looking, she's pretty and everything else like that. And you know, you get older and, and the muscles that you once had are not there anymore. The stuff that used to stand up high starts shagging a little bit. I said, that's just life. You just gotta, you know, the Bible is replete with talking about, Remember the wife of your youth, you know, drink water from your own cistern and stuff. And, and people go, it doesn't say anything, but yes, it does. It's just run from that other stuff, man, run from that. So I've tried to do that. And I've tried to more importantly, to witness to my, my children about the important, not only to who Jesus, and they are all, they're all saved, but they're all frigging knuckle dragon warriors, all of them still, but to have a marriage that's lasting. And, and I think that's. That's the most incredible, I really have a difficult time. When I, when I see, you know, people talk about here are the five things here. Let me tell you how to perfect that. It's a battle, man. Especially with kids, man. You're, you're in a battle every day. You're a battle for their, for their mind. You're in a battle for their soul. You're in a, you know, you just, that's how you think of it. That's how I think of it. You know, cause of my, my, my, my wife. My wife would say she doesn't think of it that way. She just, her pursuit was, you know, pursue excellence in her family and pursue God's love and pursue Jesus in whatever she had to do. But, but there is no easy fix, man. And some, sometimes, you know, the only thing we do is fall on your knees. I mean, that's, and we're not immune from death. You know, not sickness, anything else like that, you know? So anyway, sorry to ramble brother.

Omar: 27:12

No, no, that's not, that's not a ramble. That's actually, I'm thinking, I think you were sharing all that. Cause I, I think that that explains like a lot, like, uh, some of the, maybe the success that you had, like people, or like, like maybe they see only like the outer, right, they see you getting promoted, you know, as you go up the ladder in a sense, but at home, it seems like the strength, like the stability was at home that it allowed you. To to grow, you know,

Jimmy: 27:37

yeah, we try we try as much as like you chat is, you know, spit. Yeah, we tried you each other's because of the job. Sometimes it was hard to do. But let me give I give you a perfect example. Why about my wife? Um, I, uh, um, So I was working in D. C. at the time. I was off the street. I was in Washington, D. C. And the administrator at the time, uh, his name is Asa Hutchinson. He would wind up being a governor of, uh, Arkansas. He was one of the guys that ran for, for president and didn't make it and stuff. But, but I, I got along well with him. And, uh, And Asa just took a liking to me. It's one of those things where I didn't know at the time, but he just kind of took a liking to me. The following week comes, it's an absolutely true story. I get called in. Now I am, I am, I am an assistant to one of the big shots up there. And, and the, the, the administrator Hutchinson's assistant comes in and said, the administrator wants to see you. And I'm like, wait, what do you mean you want to see me? What do see me? So I go up and talk to him and he. He promotes me like this super kind of promotion stuff. That we've, that we've never heard of in DEA before. We've never just, you don't see that. So you talk about. When I look back and I'm, I'm very thankful and I pray and I asked the Lord, thank you for giving. So one of the things I do all the time is I have this tendency, you know, we talk about praying always train, always. I got into a habit of praying about God's attributes and I go, Lord, thank you for being a righteous guy, all of God. And then I start thanking him for everything I have. And I invariably always thank him. Thank you for giving me the wife that I have so that I could. I could walk this path as, as well as you have loved. And so that, that's the kind of, you know, that's the kind of impact. That's why I can't stand to be around people who talk negatively about their, their wives or their husbands. I can't be, I can't, when I start to hear that, I'm like, I'm out of here. I don't have time for that. I don't don't. Cause if, if that's how you're going to do with people, that's how you're probably doing it at home. I don't, I don't, I just don't have time for that. You know, I, I'm, I'm. So that the few people that I do have close friends of me do, that's the thing. They put their wives up on a pedestal and that's where most of them belong. Again, listen, man, I know that there's, you know, I know that there's sometimes problems. I know that sometimes people get married and they shouldn't get married. I get all that, but for me and my family, this is, you know, this is how, how we've always done it. And I'm thankful that the Lord's allowed me to do that. And it has to have been. Bro, it's, it's not like it's always in. It's so great. Oh, isn't it wonderful. Dude, I'm sure there were times she'd like to grab my gun and shoot me. Trust me, I'm sure growing up, you know, there's been a few times we should contemplate a homicide. So, uh, you know,

Omar: 30:26

I said, uh, uh, well, every time they celebrate their anniversary, that they look at one another and they say, uh, you know, last year I could have killed you, but, but we're still here, you know?

30:34

Yeah.

Omar: 30:38

But you know, so it's. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, I want to shift a little. So, so the home, you know, it's like, you know, like they see your wife and get the promotion.

Jimmy: 30:50

Could you, could you talk about the career, some of the things that you experienced out there? Like some of the, you know, like, uh, I guess some of the, I mean, not, not in detail, the cases, but just things out there. Yeah, so I, I was never a, you know, I was never a police officer before when I came on the job. I was a lot of military and stuff when I, when I came on. So I tell people all the time, I, I was, I was extremely green about, you know, the whole world of policing and everything else. And being an agent doesn't mean you're a cop, it's just a different type of investigation. But one of the things, uh, just shared this with somebody. So one of the things, it was when, when I first came on the job. It was in the tail end of the cocaine cowboy days was the tail end of the Miami cocaine cowboy days. It had already started shifting all the dope coming in from, uh, Columbia, Bolivia, and Peru is already shifted into Mexico coming up through the Southwest border being staged in LA and out. We were just. Trying to understand what was happening. Cause Miami was it, man, Miami, New York was it, man, New York for heroin, Philly for heroin, Miami for cocaine, that's just the way it was. And so, so our agency had a tendency to have this kind of, you know, television on, say, well, that's, what's happening. Well, the, you know, the bad guys have already reshifted everything. And so. I used to say, I used to early on ago, Lord, and this is how I pray. I said, Lord, I don't know if this is a good prayer. I don't know if I'm supposed to pray like this, but can you help me get the bad guys? Can you, can you help me get the, you know, the dope and the money and all people say, you're never going to see this again. You're never going to see that again. That was my, that was my dopey prayers. Jimmy, the

Omar: 32:28

funny thing is about that. You're praying, hope you catch the bad guys and the bad guys are praying. Oh no.

Jimmy: 32:33

Yeah, no, no. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I said that one time, everything else, you know, bless it. They got, oh yeah. They guys would go to witch doctors and bless their dope and everything else. And I, and yeah, no, no, I was well aware of it, but I go, no, my God's bigger, man. He's, I got a bigger God than you do. So no kidding. You know, we, we don't want to come there. Forget. We, we, we hit a place and, uh, uh, And they have to, they have to forget which, which saint they had up there. It was the sacred, this, that, the other thing, this is a big statue. I grabbed the statue because I'm thinking it's under there. And I was working with a Cuban cop and he went, Oh my God, you can't do that. You're going to be cursed. I go, I'm not going to be cursed. No, you don't understand that. They do this. I said, no, you don't. I swear. I said, you don't understand my God. You, you have, my God is the God. He's like the man. He's the guy. So I'm joking. I'm getting off a little bit, but I, that's, but I prayed those, I prayed that, you know, you pray those kind of prayers. And again, brother, I don't mean to come across like, oh yes, there was Jim Capra this. No, man, I was, I was tough and grinding on the street with a bunch of other tough, tough guy. These are guys that you'd want with you in a fight. Guys, you want you on a front door, guys that you want with you in a firefight. These were. Focused, driven, uh, um, men and women. And so those are the kinds of guys that I went, they're all different now. They're all not, not everybody knows a man, not everybody was a believer or anything else like that. So that's the kind of prayer I prayed. And consequently, we wound up doing some of the biggest cases that have ever been seen one, one, you know, really some just amazing, huge cases that kind of broke the lid off some of the Mexican cartels and stuff, but, so those are the kinds of things that we did, but we're still, I don't want anybody to think that it was man, be pan, be Christian stuff was you, if, if you're a bad guy and I'm coming after you, you're screwed. That's all I would tell. And this is not being macho. You'd be strongest guy in the world, but, but if you're a bad guy and I'm coming after you, you're, you're done. You're not going to be able to hide. It's just one of those things. And that's the kind of people that I work with every day. Um, we didn't, we're not going to give it up. You know, we're not, that's not the kind of thing kind of driven in that way. So you're driven in that way. And you believe in that, you know, that, that I belong to the God of the universe. Guess what? You know, you're now you're really screwed, you know, excuse me, but that's, that's the truth, man. That's just, Hey, I'm, I, you know, I'm, I'm sorry. But, uh, God's, God's always, when I look, he's always honored me. He's always blessed me. It's not like I didn't have tough times. It's not like we didn't have illnesses, not like in my family, didn't have to experience death. We had all that stuff. But, but, One of the, one of the, I give you an example and I say this cause I'm, I'm on, I'm not embarrassed about it. When I first got that big promotion from the administrator, I talked about, I never forgot sitting in the chair and, and, and I closed my door, came out to the front, kneeled down in front of my desk and said, Lord, I don't. I don't know why you have me here and I started getting emotional a little bit. This is, this is not the way things like telling God, this is not the way it's supposed to work. You know, I think they might've made a horrible mistake. That's why I'm here. And I joke about that, but I was serious because part of me was excited about the position, but the other half of me was, Kind of scared and nervous and then when I wound up taking over Dallas, Um, years ago, I remember, um, cause early on in my career, one of the, um, we weren't out there, we're out another deal, but probably one of the worst shootings that we've ever had lost to two agents and one was, it was terrible. It was just, it was, it was horrible. And, uh, You kind of never forget the screams and you never forget stuff. But I remember when I got to Dallas, one of the first things I did is I got out of my car. I got there early. I just kind of walked around the property, walked around the property praying. So Lord, you have me here for a reason. Um, please protect these men. I don't know. I was just talking to, I was just talking to you. You put me here. I don't know why yet, but I'm here and I just, I want to not just honor you, but I want to be a good representative, whatever that means. Still being a chucklehead Lord. And I walked around, touched the gates. I walked around the whole property, man, walked on property and touched the fence and said, Lord, bless this place, protect these men. And for the six years that I was there. They had, it was a stellar six years. I mean, my goodness, you know, most, all of my men and women were, you know, we still lost people, but they were lost to like death or an accident. You know what I mean? We didn't lose anybody in an operation or stuff like that. So I just, I believe that. That God honored that prayer. I just, I just believe that he honored that prayer. And it's again, I tell people all the time, brother, because I'm a, because I'm a Christian, because I believe in Jesus Christ, that he's my savior, what he did on the cross, uh, he took my sins. And as far as the east is from the west, he threw them away. That's hard sometimes to reconcile with, that's hard to, but he did, and so I'm, I'm going with that. This, the older I've gotten, this life is temporary. And so one of the things that I talk about now when I go out and say, how much time do you have people? He's like, how much time do you have? How much time do you have left? I start to put that into reality says there is, and I think everybody intrinsically knows I love these people. There's nothing after this. Really? You don't think so. What you're doing is you're hiding that you don't, you don't want it, but we, I think we all, he's built it into us to know there's something else and there's something beyond this. And Jesus talked about it all the time, like two places, you're going to go, you're going to go and stand before the Lord when he says, come on in, man. And I'm being, you know, being a little glib about that. Or you, you go to a place that's, that's was designed for, you know, the fallen angels. The serious, when you start thinking about it, man, people laugh and they go, Oh, that's fairytale stuff. If I'm wrong, I got nothing to lose. If we're wrong about our faith, Omar, if we're wrong about heaven, if we're wrong, that when we die, Uh, we, we don't go somewhere. We have nothing to lose, but if we're right, which we are, the Bible tells us what Jesus talked about. Now people forget Jesus talked about hell. He talked about heaven. He talked about, you know, and I go back to think, think about, I think one of the best stories, you know, within our community, when I now I'm talking about the Christian community, there's all sorts of us, right? You, me, people from bizarre backgrounds, people who are extremely wealthy, people who are nearly destitute, all that kind of part of that, you know, the Christian community. Uh, when there's you hear different ways of people, this is what you have to do. You got to do this. You got to belong to this. You better be baptized. You know, the guy on the cross, the two thieves on the cross, man, I remind people, I use this in one of my books at the end because I talked a lot about my faith. I wrote a book called Raising Courageous Children in a Cowardly Culture. And I just thought it wasn't a how to book, man. It was just my son came home. He was, um, He was a cop. He's a SWAT guy. And, and he said, Dad, what's wrong? This is what he said. What's wrong with my generation? I'm like, well, that'll, that opens up things wide open. When he was getting, I was, he was frustrated with some of the ethical things. He was frustrated with some of the other issues he's faced with. He was frustrated with that men and women, his age looked at work a little bit differently. And so I went to my wife and I said, well, What would you think if we just wrote our story? Not a how to. We just talked, and it's really a book about hope. It's about what it, what we did to raise six kids of purpose. And we didn't leave anything out, man. We've just done good, the bad, and the ugly. But throughout it, I talked about our faith. Throughout it, I talked about how important our faith was. Throughout it, I talked about how much it was important to us to pour into that. And at the end of the book, I said, listen, some of you who've read this, you know, I've heard a lot about, you know, you're going, what is this, what is this Jesus thing? So what does this Christian thing? I said, let me, let me offer this up. I said, when Jesus was crucified on the cross, he had two thieves that were crucified on either side of him. He says theologians and scholars say that they really weren't thieves, that they were probably murderers. And that's why they were being, that's why they were, they were being crucified. And the one guy actually started, the one guy started cursing him, well, if you're this guy, get us off. If you're this guy, get us off. But the other, the other guy, Uh, the other thief on the cross looked over because he knew, I think he, I think he knew. He said, Hey Lord, when you go in, when you go into, you know, your kingdom, remember, remember me when Jesus said, he said today, not tomorrow, not, not this. He didn't ask him if he was a Baptist, a Catholic, a Lutheran. He didn't ask him if he got baptized. He didn't believe he didn't ask him. Do you believe in post trib, mid trib? He didn't ask him if he was a Calvinist. He didn't ask him if it's a meaning. He said, today you'll be with me in paradise. He didn't ask him how much he tithes, right? He just said today, cause he knew the man's heart today. You'll be with me. And I'll tell people all the time, man. Some would get so caught up with what do I got to do? What do we got? You just got to go before him and say, Hey Lord, it's me. Forgive me for, you know, forgive me. And he promises he said, whosoever believes in me, but yet, yet though he or she dies, we'll live. I'm up with that. Yeah. I'm, I'm that guy. I'm, I'm, I'm the guy, you know, the story about the, but when Jesus tells the story about the two guys in the wall and they're the one guy is, is sitting there going, Oh, Lord, I'm glad I'm not a sinner like that guy. Right. I was just

Omar: 42:11

thinking about that one. Right.

Jimmy: 42:12

He's, oh boy, look how, look how, and the other guy, he won't even get close to the wall. He's got his head bowed. Oh Lord, forgive me. You know, he's forget. I, I, I get that guy.

42:22

Yeah.

Jimmy: 42:22

It's, it's like, it's me again, Lord. It's me again. I'm still dealing with this. I still struggle with this. I still got this, you know, and in my mind's eye, I go, Lord's going, Hey, it's, it's, It's Jimmy again. He doesn't get it. It's all right, man. It's all right. No,

Omar: 42:36

get back in the arena. The part about that story. I love it. It says that he couldn't even lift up his eyes that he had his head down by the other guy was like, how great he was. And, uh, I think that that's what we need to be with. Like, we're also like, Didn't one of the thieves also say like, man, why are you talking to him? Like, like we deserve to be here. That's to me. That's the guy says, man has done nothing. You know,

Jimmy: 43:01

we deserve this. Yeah. And I think that's it. When we come into this, we realized what I deserve is right. What I deserve, you know, is, is. Is death torment and all the other, but, but he said, he's grace is sufficient. Like I said, man, Hey, if I'm wrong, Omar, if you're wrong, so what, whatever wrong. So we go into the desk, but we know we're not, you know, the Lord, the Lord said, he's put it into all men's heart to seek him.

Omar: 43:32

You know, a sinner saved by grace. A lot of times people think that we, we do like, let's say the, the good quote unquote, good things, favor with God. But it's, it's when we, like you mentioned that guy that he said, man, Lord, forgive me for, I'm a sinner. Yeah. I've seen against you is like knowing that, like you mentioned, like we deserve God's wrath, but he's mercy is grace is forgiveness. What makes us do those good works that I think that's true that he said that he, that he prepared beforehand for us to walk in.

Jimmy: 44:04

How cool is that man? He knew you before the beginning of the earth, the foundation, the Bible says that before the foundations of the earth, he knew you and he knew you by name. Dad, like you start trying to wrap your head around that. It's like, dude, I don't know. You know what he so, and that's, there's a, the other thing I've been, cause the older you get, I go, there's a, there's a couple of places in Psalms and in Proverbs of Lord teach me to number my days so that I may gain a heart of wisdom. And so you need to break that down. You said, teach me Lord, teach me to understand. I'm only here for. And in Jesus for right for a vapor and in that time, teach, make me understand that so that when I do this life, I do it with wisdom in terms of what, you know, what am I doing for you? What am I doing? And I, and I think part of that for me was what am I doing? They're really important for me to pour into my. You know, my family people, as I'm raising my kids, some people would say, Hey, maybe you should do this with church. And when I said, listen, dude, my, my responsibility, not just to my profession is to raise up these, these children. I have in my wife, first of all, protect them to make sure that I'm making money so that we can pay mortgages, but more importantly, so that they all know who Jesus

45:11

is. And after

Jimmy: 45:12

that, after that, yeah. I'm good to go. So I was, that was important to me because I got asked, well, did you get involved in church and you get involved in a student, I'm my day, just working sometimes, especially on the street. Go from 12, 16 hours a day or more living out there. And then when I had time for my family, when I made time, I made time, you know, that was important, I made time for the fam. So, so one of the things I talked about Omar was, is I tried to my best is to be intentional, intentional in my faith, intentional as a husband and intentional as a dad. Do things on purpose with, you know, with them. And so, um, and, and I hope, you know, for my, my children and my wife and the feedback that at least they're giving me, I was okay, you know, one perfect, but uh, well, Hey, my wife's still with me after 42 years. So she. You can't complain.

Omar: 46:07

Speaking of intentionality, like, uh, I'm involved in ministry. You know, I go to church, involved in Ben's ministry, me and my wife, elders at church, and we're involved in ministry. And then I do the podcast one day, then I edit on another day. So it takes up a lot of time. So from June 7th to July 7th, I took a 30 day break and I told my kids like, Whatever you guys need me to do with you guys for you guys, put it on the calendar. So I took off days and I took them driving, uh, um, because they're ball ones, 19, one 17. So I'm teaching them how to drive. And

46:41

so

Omar: 46:41

I, the reason I did that, cause I felt, I don't want them to ever resent ministry or to say, God, I mean, dad put ministry before us. Cause they are my first ministry, my wife,

Jimmy: 46:55

my kids. So. Bible and Bible talks about that. Bible talks about being able to take care of your family versus other things becomes some of the most important things. You know, it's kind of like work life balance, even though that's up, it's sometimes difficult to really put your finger on. But if you don't make time, if you're not intentional with your family and with your children, if you don't, I would tell people stop and I got to come up for air. I have to, you can get lost. You can get burned out. You can get burnt out with church stuff. You can get burnt out with, with small group meetings and stuff like that. They all know you can't. Yes, you can, you can just be mindful of that.

Omar: 47:35

Yeah,

Jimmy: 47:35

that's good that you are, man.

Omar: 47:37

Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. You know what? I want to ask you about leadership. I know, I know you're very big into leadership and I, like I told you, I was listening to one of the, the podcast you did, and there's, there's a lot of leaders out there that believe that you shouldn't build like relationship with those under you or rule, you know, tell them what to do, but, uh, um, from, from what I heard you say, you, you have a very different perspective you, you want to share on your view, uh, as far as, you

Jimmy: 48:03

know, yeah. So it's funny because it's still, there's so much stuff out there. If you Google leadership, you'll hit 50 million heads. You'll get people that are as young as 23 and running around trying to tell people how to run an organization to other people's, I have the secret sauce to doing it. Um, I, I just use the way I walked into leadership was, and I learned a lot, made a lot of mistakes. You know, I made a, made a ton of mistakes and I was fortunate to have men and women who loved me and forgave me for, you know, my shortfalls. But I tell people, if you decide to go into a leadership position, what you're doing is you're deciding to walk it into a place where you're going to learn how to love people. And people go, what are you talking about? So you, and they get this concept of love screwed up, man. Like it's a quiver in your liver. This, I said, love it. In other words, you have to consciously love your people that care about these men and women. You have to, you have to want to care about them. It's, it's not, you don't hold them accountable. They're not going to hold you accountable. It's not, you know, everybody gets a hug. It's you care about them as human beings. And here's the weird thing, especially for us, here's one of the challenges for us. Man, it's, it's easy to like people who are like us, always got the same faith. He has the same political, maybe he looks the same. That's easy to do. It's different, man. When you're working alongside of men and women who think differently than you, they believe differently in terms of maybe their faith, uh, maybe their familial situate. It's different. They feel completely opposite than you. But when you're their leader, you still got to care about them. You don't have to agree with somebody's lifestyle. You don't have to agree with somebody's faith. It's not what you're called. You're called to love them and care about them and say, okay. And then you want to develop them professionally and personally. And you do that by, and how you do that is by. You start to have a relationship with them. You get to know people and that's a hard thing to do. Cause some people don't want you to know it's a hard, it's a walk. It's you're always, you know, you're always learning. Okay. It's not about I'm the boss. You do what I say, that's old news, man. It's about, Hey man, how, you know, how are you doing? What's happening? You know, and I have, you know, one of the things when I wrote my first book, I wrote his leadership front line. And I, I just talked about my walk. I just talked about the things that I learned. And people said, what's the, what's the best way to leave? I said, you want to love people love to care about that. I don't care what organization you're doing. And these researchers, there's a bunch of research guys that are out there that have written all sorts of great books. And every one of these Men and women who've written books on, on leadership and research always comes down to the best CEOs. The best leaders are men and women who cared about their people. Listen, man, if you're running a business and you're in it for a profit, we get that, but the only way to get there, the only way to get to the profit, to get to those scores. Is your men and women who take you there and the only way they'll take you there, if they know that they're cared about, that they're genuinely cared about.. Your number, your number one thing that you're missing is your men and women. Do you care about that? I mean, do you, do you really, do you really care about it? And so I have stories in the book about, you know, things that you learn, you watch people go through. Where in any leadership book does it talk about when you're sitting in your office and somebody comes in and sits down and says, my wife just left me. sits down and says, my kid was killed in an accident. You get a phone call 2 a. m. You know, sits down and just, these are things that have happened in my walk. And now I said, my wife is diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. Well, let me, let me see, where is that in the book? It isn't, man. It isn't. And there are times in my career when you walk and sometimes you can't, I can't, I can't bring the kid back. I can't take his disease away. But in that moment, I could put my arm around that person. Sometime I've done it. You put your arm around somebody, you cry with them. You can't do anything. You can't do anything else. You know, or, or, or if they were receptive to it, you take a moment just to pray for a minute or bless them, you know, be there, comfort them. That's it, man. That's, that's it. Somebody has a baby and they can't make it to work. They, we're going to be here tomorrow, man. Don't worry about it. It'll be, it'll be here tomorrow. And so when you start to walk like that, and the way you walk like that, if you're going to walk your walk as a Christian, that starts to become crystal clear to you, those things become a problem. Now, listen, there, there were people, it's almost impossible to fire people in federal government, number one, but there were some people in my walk that I did have to fire. There were people that I said, you're not getting

52:36

promoted.

Jimmy: 52:36

There were some people that I had to look at and go, you can do better than this and you're not. Guess what? I'm moving you from here to here. You know, maybe, you know, sometimes I want to say, Hey, you suck. But that's frowned upon, you know, but, but really I still have to do those types of things. I still have to tell people, no, man, you're not, you're not, no, sorry. Hey, will you support me in a transfer? No. Why? Cause you ain't doing what you should be doing. So, so it doesn't remove you from those things.

53:01

And people

Jimmy: 53:01

said, well, do you care about it? Yeah. Still cared about him. You know, I did care about, I'm telling one guy, I thought he was a cancer. So your cancer,

Omar: 53:10

well, one of the words I heard you say, uh, in, in that, uh, interview, uh, accountability, because a lot of times we think love, we got to get the people to like us, but you worry about, uh, you, you, uh, a word you use a few times is moral compass and how at times you had to share your moral compass with other men that were on their way. I believe you like almost like heading straight down, down a cliff in a sense, but yeah, I talk about

Jimmy: 53:36

how that they were living. I talk about that a lot when, when, uh, one of the things I talk about is moral and ethics and, and where your moral compass is and don't compromise it. And so, you know, there's kind of like lock from years ago, locker room, talk and all this other stuff. And I, you have to set the example. I had a, um, and there's been a few times in my walk where I've grabbed somebody, put them off and said, I never want to hear you say that and you don't ever, I never want to do that, that what you're somebody who's bragging about, you know, an affair bragging about this, that, the other things, don't do that. That's cancer. Don't do it. I mean, if that's, if you want to, if you want to ruin your life, you know, there's been a few times. They've had to say that, you know, if you want to ruin your life, that's up to you. But you don't bring that in here. I'm not, I'm not putting up with that stuff. You know, you're not, you know, that that's just not going to happen. I had, I was overseas training and I literally had somebody that I thought I knew that I did. Some guy kept saying, Hey, Hey, they were sitting around with a bunch of flight attendants or something. Anyway, guy kept coming to the table, come to the table, come to the table, come to the table, sit with us, dude, I'm, that's stuff that I run from, sorry, sorry, and this one guy came up to me, this is, one guy came up to me, pointed his little bony fingers out, if you were, this is what he had to, he had the, he had the frigging cojones to tell me, he said, you know, if I, you hung out with me, if I hung out with you for a week, this is what he said, he said, I'd corrupt you in a heartbeat, that's what he told me, that's what he said to me. I want to punch him in the face. I've known him for a long time. Honestly, I want to punch him right in the face. I thought I knew him. Family knows him. Didn't know him at all. I was killing myself. I can't believe he's saying this. I remember looking at him and said, let me tell you something, man. I can come, become like you, like that. That's what he did, like that. I said, you can never be me again. You can't. And I walked away. And that was pretty freaking mean, dude. But he was so convinced that because that's the kind of life I didn't know he lived that kind of life. This is, listen, bro, this is somebody that we would have at the house and family. And I know I, I didn't know who this person was. And I, I just said, no, then you're not going to, you're not going to get away with that. Omar, I first, I would tell people this, what do you believe? What do you mean by that? About anything. What about my faith? Sure. But what do you believe about your work? What do you believe about being a father? What do you believe about, you know, being a son? What do you believe about your employment? What do you believe? Because your, those beliefs, your hardwired beliefs, that's why our faith is so important. Those beliefs, those, those things wind up that you can't see them. So if I had a triangle, your, your beliefs are kind of underwater thinking about the iceberg, right? But, but those beliefs start to establish The things that you value, right? That you value. That's why let's, let's go back to the street, right? When you're, when we're on the street, we know you run into, you know, you run into gangsters and everything, and you start talking to them, but some of these guys don't believe in anything. They don't believe in terms of they, or they have a twisted sense of morality. They have a twist, a sense of right and wrong. They have a twisted sense of family. That's why we can look at people and say, he has a bad character, but character is nothing more than the execution of what you believe character. Is nothing more than you're shown what you believe This is, this is what I believe. Because you're, those beliefs kind of start to, they'll start wrangling and started stabbing, not only your values and then your values will lead to your actions. I can watch your actions. So let's say, I don't know you from anything. I don't know what you believe, but if I took the time, if I could and followed you around for maybe two or three days, I, I could understand what you believe. Wouldn't take me much, wouldn't take much time. Same thing, same thing with me. Follow me around, see what, believe never down, let it go, man. I didn't know you that much of a chucklehead, you know? So, so what I'm saying is you're constantly, it's never get there, man. You never, you never arrive at being this kind of, you know. Grand you're always, you know, you're always, you know, learning and there are times you got to go back and then you got, you know, wind up telling people, Hey, you're stuck, you know, you're sorry about stuff that happens. It shouldn't, shouldn't be all the time, but every now and then we've got to go, Hey man, I used to tell people, the older I got used to tell people that how much I, you know, you love them.

Omar: 57:44

That's also some, some, some good stuff, man, especially like a leadership and the family. And I think it's very important. Like I know you, you, you mentioned a lot about the home, but I believe it starts there. Like, I tell people like, what's the point of me succeeding? Let's say in ministry at work and my, my family's like, like, like falling apart. And you know, I believe it starts at home, uh, first and foremost with the wife. A lot of times people think, Oh, it's my kids. No, it's not. It's with the wife. Uh, I read a book and it said, uh, best, uh, the best thing you could do for your kids is to love their mother. Yeah. That's something that, that I strive to do, like to try to keep the peace at home. And another thing, uh, speaking of peace at home, uh, another thing that he said was like, uh, the world's going to beat you, beat you up. Uh, the workplace is going to beat you up if the home ain't a safe place for you to run to, where are you going to run to, you know, if our kids

58:34

that's

Omar: 58:35

100 percent because there's chaos because there's conflict. Because there's always fighting and arguing. Why would they want to come home? You know, like the home should be like the, the refuge, you know, like that's exactly

Jimmy: 58:46

right. And that's one of the things that Shell and I used to talk about homeless should be a refuge. In other words, but, uh, and I talked about some in watching some of my kids. Uh, going through stuff as they got, you know, people go, Oh, your kids must all be, they didn't do drugs because you were, I have a lot of friends and acquaintances who in the same career I did who've taken their kids to rehab, some lost, you know, it's just, it's, it's ugly, but home should be a refuge. And what I mean by that is if my kids found out they were, they were in quicksand, In life, that home was a place that they can come back to and touch base. And I see my, my daughter said this to me, she was sitting there. I took her out. So we went out to breakfast, a little hole up the road here. And while we're eating, she goes, dad, she goes, she goes, can I tell you something? I said, why? Because you and mom are a fairy tale. I was like, what? She was like, you and mom are a fairy tale. You're a frigging fairy tale. And I'm like, where the heck is this coming from? You know, I'm trying to, okay. You know, she said, I don't have a single friend. I don't have a single, single friend. She told me that she spent a lot of time in Northeast and it's really liberalized because I don't have a single friend whose mom or dad hadn't been married, divorced a few times. No, I don't have. Most of the people that I know, I know they have, you know, this, that, and the other thing. She says, you got your guy's fairytale. I said, let me tell you something. I said, you didn't never solve it. Mom and I kept the dark side of the fairytale away from you. The best we could. We, we, we really did. I said, you, you think for one minute there weren't times You know, especially in younger years that your mom, more than likely than me looked and said, what the hell am I doing with this thing? And I could, I could be a seat. I could, she was, she was climbing up the ladder in IBM. And I said, you didn't see the times that we're worried. Can I make the mortgage payment? There were a few times that we didn't make this payment. Lay it on so we can make that payment on this side. You didn't see the number of times we went out in LA that, thank God for these little frigging, uh, markets where you can buy clothes for your kids. And so we weren't poor, dude, don't get me wrong. We're poor, but I said, you just didn't see that. So we kept grinding. Kept saying, okay, Lord, we kept, you know, kept out of anything I said for us. We just said we promised each other we're not giving up. And again, I told her this, like I told her, I said, I'm sure mom probably could have wanted to commit homicide a few times, but we never, you know, we never, we're never going to give up. I said, we just tried to hide that from you guys a lot. You know, you saw us arguing from time to time, but You, we didn't, we tried not to have that. We did our best to, you know, to pour into what, what, what, you know, maybe what the Lord wants for your life and what he wants is he wants your heart first. So yeah, I got involved in, in men's ministry for a while. And I said, man, you know, we, we're not good at sharing our problems with other men. Cause that's weakness, right? We're not, we're just not good. I have a, I have a friend of mine, I call him accountability brother. He was never caught with marketing. I love him dearly. I met him through the men's thing, but he's a guy that I can sit with and I can drop my guard around. What I mean by that is I can say, Completely different walk of life, man. And, but we can sit out for, uh, sit down and, and, and I can say to him, Hey, how's it going? I go, no, it sucks. I'm having this, that, you know, and it's been a few, few times in the course of our, our good friendship in the last seven or eight years that, uh, that we've done that, you know, and, and here's what you get from that. That's why I think when you talk about accountability, I call them an accountability brother. This is why those things become important. I think, especially for men. Is you need somebody that you can talk to. And I tell men all the time, don't have an accountability sister. And that ain't, that don't work. Don't go there. Get somebody like you. Who's, you know, same faith, same moral compass and best, you know, maybe you don't through the men's ministry and stuff and just be you, you know, just be you. So when I retired, I did things a lot differently. I decided to do the speaking thing. And a few years down the road, it's going good. COVID hit, shut everything down. I was, it was really at an all time. Things really weren't happening for the, for the speaking and everything. I was coming home and there was a particular station I listened to. Um, Call the word FM and has a couple of pastors that I really like that are teachers and a commercial came on this. Then the station manager says, Hey, if you ever basically talking about having your own radio station, I'm like, hey, man, I don't radio station. I was just pulling into my complex and everything. So I pulled it. I don't, I don't, I don't do anything big or. You know, little without talking to my wife. It's just how I've been. And that's not because, oh, Jim did that. That's because my father taught me about that. He used to say all the time, I tell mom, I tell your mother everything. I told my mother everything that happened at work. I tell your mother when he was a cop, I tell your mother everything. So that I, anytime I'm trying to think about, am I going to do this? When I started writing, when I started, when I decided to do this business, I ran it by her because if she said that doesn't sound good, I would go, okay. Hang on. And because sometimes for men, they taught me this, sometimes for men, he would say, he goes, you know, sometimes God speaks to men through their wives.

1:04:06

Yes.

Jimmy: 1:04:06

You just learn to listen, learn to listen. He'd say, I never got that. I mean, I never forgot that. So anyway, I hear this. And I don't say anything to shell. So I come home, I go to my desk, I get on the email and I email this guy, uh, you know, an email, say, Hey, this is who I am. Blah, blah, blah. They said the other thing, that's it. 20 minutes later, I get a phone call. I almost hung up on it. It was, I thought it was spam or something. So I pick it up. Hey, hey, this is so and so from, and I went and said, who the blank is this? No, he goes, Oh, you sent an email. And I was like, Oh, And now I'm talking to a Christian station. Oh, oh, oh, that's true, man. So I started talking to a guy and he said, Hey, listen, we, we, we'd really like you to come down. I want to talk to you. He said, we looked at it. It goes, we don't have anybody like you. I was like, listen, I can't do anything. I got to, I don't even run this by my wife. So I come into the office real quick. I said, Hey, let me run something by you. I mean, I can get five, six, seven words out of my actually got to do it. You got to do it. So we can now meet with them and we, we do a one year contract with them. And we're on, we're on first on air once a week, and then it was twice a week. And then it was, uh, Half hour program called leadership at the front line and I would upload it to, um, Spotify and they're all still on there under leadership front line. And it was so much fun. And, uh, it was a lot. I just talked about trying to talk about leadership through the lens of faith for the most part. And I had a lot of different guys on there from different, uh, Walks of life and stuff and a couple of really power players on there. The former director of national intelligence, John Radcliffe, who's a friend of mine, used to be a U. S. attorney. And not everybody was a evangelical, you know, so just people in positions and talking to them about leadership. But it was really, it was, it was joyful to do. It was, uh, and so we uploaded the whole year, uh, different episodes onto Spotify. And, uh, And then towards when the year anniversary came up, we were pumping a lot of money into it, but we weren't getting anything on return. And so from a business standpoint, no, I did everything we could, but we just, we couldn't justify keeping putting money into it. We just couldn't. I mean, we, I mean, we prayed about it and everything and it's not a failure. It's just, it was, that's allowed me to do that for a season. And so we've been praying about more gigs and trying to get out and do more speaking and just within the last week, again, I cannot, you know, I can't. I don't believe for one minute that God's some genie that I pray and I want this and he gives it to me. That's, that's not what I'm saying. Uh, I believe that the seasons he's moved in the seasons that we've been in. And sometimes he's been quiet. If we, if I was, if I'm honest, sometimes during my life, he was quiet, but he never left me, never abandoned me, never, never did not bless me with my, with children, with things, with positions, with all that stuff. But he's not a genie. I tell people all the time, that's what I said. We prayed earnestly about radio gig. We got it. We did it for a year. Didn't work out the way we wanted it. Is it a failure? No, he gave me that opportunity for a year. I got connected to some people that had been connected to it's still on Spotify. So go in there and listen and that's great. And so. Or lately, you know, we've kind of been praying because, you know, what opens more doors and stuff. I mean, I'm a retired public servant, you know, all sorts of stuff. So I get, we're fortunate I have a retirement stuff, but you know what? I always go, Lord, you, I want to, I want to do this more. I want to do more still. You've got me living here. So, and so just recently, you know, we've gotten a couple of phone calls and gigs are going to seem to be picking up a little bit, but even if, even if they don't, here's what I'm getting to say. Even if, if I never have another speaking gig for the rest of my life, we're good, man. God's been good to me if you go, if I, if I never write again, If I never speak again, what would you do? Nothing. Do you keep thanking God, watching my family grow. Ask them to, you know, to bless and protect my children, speak, pouring into my children, even as adults. You know, I've got this tendency, not a tendency, I'm trying to get into a habit now, but every night I'll send in. I love the Psalms, so I'll pull something outta Psalms and send it my, not just my kids, but their husbands and or wives. Just a, just a brief boom here. Why? Not so they can walk around being holy. So it's a reminder, man. Reminder, God is good. Reminder, God is faithful. Reminder, God is righteous. Reminder, God is holy. Reminder, he's a just God. He loves his children. You're an heir to the king. Never forget it. We're done with this earth suit. We will stand before him. You

Omar: 1:08:56

know,

Jimmy: 1:08:57

that's,

Omar: 1:08:58

you know, that's how

Jimmy: 1:08:59

we try to roll, man. That's, that's it. That's

Omar: 1:09:02

a great

Jimmy: 1:09:02

way to

Omar: 1:09:02

roll there. You know,

Jimmy: 1:09:03

You know, that's, that, that's it. So it doesn't, I always go back to it. So I'm in some kind of club, you know, where people would say, man, that you sound like those are losers. I'll be with the losers then. I'm good with that. Jesus was a loser. I'm glad to be, you know, in his club. It's embarrassing sometimes to look, Oh, he really, there's, there's a Psalm or I think it's in the Psalms or prophecies. Lord, what is man that you would even, that you would even take time to really us, me, honestly. Harry Humble, if I was you, I'd smite me. I, I would, I would, you know, thank God, but that's, you know, that's the kind of stuff that's how good that thing, you know, that, that God is my, I watched my brother, Lou, some six boys and a girl in my family. I know all of them are still married to the same wives. And my brother, Lou, uh, his wife, he was Coast Guard. And, uh, His, his wife, he would tell you his first wife saved him, saved him from death. He'll tell you outright saved me. He was a fighter. He was, uh, he was just, he, he was crazy. My youngest brother, but his wife tamed him. Now he loved the Lord. I mean, he loved the Lord, but he was, you know, you, you bumped him, look out. And, and his wife was amazing. Had three boys, raised them all. Saved by grace. And I watched him. He's supposed to go on a trip with me and my wife and my other brother and his wife were all excited. And on the way to the airport, his wife doubled up doing what's going on. And six months later, she was gone. Some rare form of cancer that even the cancer doctor said, I've seen this once in my entire career, this type of cancer. Devout. He, my brother's a devout fit like me, like a warrior, his wife on her knees, praying for her children. And you sit and go, I don't get it. But I watched my brother walk through that. And I got to tell you, I, I go, Lord, I don't, I think I would fail. If I'm honest, bro, I watched him go through that with such Such a conviction and passion. And, and, and he, he was there when she drew her last breath in a, in a hospice and everything, never, never, I remember him reciting Job, you know, get though. He slayed me. I go in, Lord, I don't, how, how, how, man, it's kids the same way, man. It's kids the same way. And I'm like, so, so. You know, here it is. And we got even closer, but we're all pretty close and you got even closer, but after two years, I would talk to him. He just said that he goes in the loneliness. He said, I said, come on. He would say, well, come on, like waves, just the, the, the, I guess I never kind of realized it. And he felt guilty that, that he, you know, was kind of looking at dating and stuff like that. Well. Dude, he winds up meeting this chick who is amazing, just an amazing gal, uh, Christian, lost her husband in a kind of a similar manner, hit it off. And here it is now five years later, since his wife died, he's new, he's married again to this wonderful woman. God has blessed him incredibly where they live all this other stuff. And you just go, you can't, this is a God thing, you can't, you keep, he makes, what's the site? He makes beauty from ashes.

1:12:46

Yeah.

Jimmy: 1:12:46

You know, joy from your tears and stuff like that. And I just go, this is an incredible, we love her, man. We love, we love my friend going out to see him in a, in a few weeks. I mean, and she's a prayer warrior, this woman, you know, she's, she's. She's, uh, but, but what I'm getting to is in our walk and in our faith is we think sometimes, well, we're supposed to be immune from stuff, dude, we ain't right. Sometimes it piles on and we look up and go, Hey, Hey, how much more? And it's my watch. My brother go through this. I go, I don't get it. And I, I listen, I still, when things happen, I still, when people ask, I don't know why I heard Franklin Graham the other day, when he was talking about the assassination attempt that, uh, the former president. He's beautiful, man. He says, I don't know why God saved some people and why some people died because I don't know why. I don't know why that one guy took a bullet and the other guy did. I don't have an answer for that. And I often say, I don't even know if we're going to know on the other side. I don't know. I don't know if it'll matter. You know, we don't, we don't have those, you know, answers. That's why I laugh when people try to say, well, I know what, I don't know what, or I know he's, he's still God. No matter like, like listening to my brother go, yeah, not yet. Though he slayed me, I'm going to, I'm going to praise him. I'm going to honor him. I'm going to worship him. He's I, you know, cause that's it, man. Let's say this is it. We're here for a moment. Just here for a moment. So, hey, man, I'm sorry, man. I was I was rambling. No, no, no. Yeah.

Omar: 1:14:19

No, that's good I was thinking about when the Matthew 8 when the Jesus got in the boat the disciples follow him And you would think, man, they're following Jesus. Everything's going to be good. But man, that's when the storm came, you know? So sometimes they were, we're, we're not the storms and sometimes following Jesus is going to bring us into the storms, but I think he desires to, to strengthen our faith. I think that's, that's what he was trying to teach the disciples and that story there because he asked them, where's your faith? You know, when, uh, I was, I was, uh, studying that. And it said that, uh, the storm didn't wake up Jesus. It was the disciples lack of faith that got his attention. He said, uh, Jesus address man first. Because he knows man is the hardest to deal with. Then he rebuked the winds and the waves because he knew that that was easy. But yeah, let me, he's hard headed, man.

Jimmy: 1:15:12

That's true, man. It is true. You know, they do those dudes, but they've been with them all this time and watching. Heal, you know, the sick, the lame, the blind, raising the dead, everything else like that. And they're still panicking. Oh, we're going to die. You know what I use? I just, I've said this before. I go, listen, if I was walking with Moses, And he went up to the mountain and I was down there 40 days waiting for him to convinced. I'm convinced I'd be collecting all the earrings. Yeah. I'd be convinced. Great. I I'd be one of the guys, Mel, you help him make that cow. I, I said, we look at it and go, oh, it wouldn't be me. And I go, Lord, I Oh, please don't ever test me. Don't

Omar: 1:15:56

only by the, by the grace of God. Going back to the story you shared about that guy that, oh, oh, gimme one week and you, uh, and I'll be able to, to corrupt you. Yeah. It's only spirit. By the grace of God that we're not like, like me, like, uh, it's been, uh, it's going to be, uh, on October 26th of this year, it'll be 20 years that I haven't drank or done any drugs. People ask me, oh, you, uh, or they tell me, oh, you got a lot of, uh, willpower or a strong will and like, nah, like, I don't trust me. It ain't me. Cause I know me. I know what this flesh desires. I know this flesh is after, and it's only by the God that he's been able to keep me that this, this long, and I pray it continues to go even further than this. You know? Yeah, yeah,

Jimmy: 1:16:39

absolutely, man. A hundred percent. That's because you know where your strength comes from. That's the thing. Like I said, you know, we got to this point where, you know, the guy or the guy looking back at us in the mirror going, Oh, I know that guy, he's, he's not, well,

Omar: 1:16:55

yeah, I was going to ask you, is there any, uh, uh, maybe something we didn't get a chance to touch on that you want to share before we get ready?

Jimmy: 1:17:03

No, you know what, when I, like I said, people, I put something out the other day, somebody was asked, especially when I talk, I got a heart for, you know, for parenting and children. And it's just, there's so much fluff out there. There's so much. You know, especially for marriages, so many, so many things out there. And I would say you, one of my, I got asked to speak at a prayer breakfast, not, not long ago. And, and one of the guys asking me goes, what, what would you say about any kind of intentionality? Get back to intentionality. I said, you know, one of the things the older I've gotten, the re when I start to realize the brevity of our, of our life. Is, is how important it is to do things on purpose. How important is because we, we all get into a habit of doing things. I get up in the morning, do our gig, do this, any other. I said, even including in prayer, which becomes a prayer can be wrote. Remember the Lord said, don't, don't be like the others and sit there and say these. He taught them how to pray. And, and I've done my best to tell my kids. Talk to the Lord like you're talking to him, like he's sitting next to you, not therefore, but like you said, or thou art thou, whatever it is. But just be honest with him. And I'm, I'm being intentional about if you're in pain, he gets it. He already knows. Same thing with your marriage and with your children and everything. And just believe that he's, I just got to a point where I'm believing he's going to do something about it. And if it doesn't turn out the way I want it, I'm like, okay, Lord, I'm still moving. I'm still grinding. I'm still, I'm still moving forward. I don't understand it. And like I said, I, we may not never know why he's white. Why didn't he respond to this prayer or not? I don't know. I'm not God, but, but I know he's sovereign

1:18:45

and

Jimmy: 1:18:46

I'm going to be intentional when I talk to him about, so I'm going to be honest when I talk about it, and then there's times to go and I tell people, I said, I, I go before him and I go, Lord, it's me again. I'm a chucklehead. I'm still frigging wrestling with this, or I'm still wrestling with that. I don't know why, or, or Lord, my eyes weren't on this. They were on something else. And you know, all those things that kind of hit you and there's no excuse for it. There's just, you know, we're, we by nature are rebellious. We're, we're rebellious. You know, remember I called Israel the stiff neck and rebellious people. And I, I go, that's us, you know, that, that's us, you know, I want it and I want it now. Well, that's not how he works. This is, this is his, we're his. We're we belong to him. And then I, I, I've said before, I think when you break down the Lord's prayer, I said, I, I, somebody, I said, you know, one of the, one of the, one of the hardest things to pray if we, if we break down, how far, how are there, you know, when we get into, you know, Your will be done on earth as in heaven. We zip past that. When you stop for a minute, man, and you go, we're telling the Lord your will, not my will. See, I want things bro. The way I want things. I know what I want. I know what I want in my life, my marriage, in my checkbook. I know those things. But when you decide to yield and go, Lord, I still would like these things, but your will be done. Man, think about Jesus. Think about Jesus for a minute. He's a Fully God and fully man. And it goes before the father and says, if you, if, if you would, you know, let this cup pass from me, but not my will, your will.

Omar: 1:20:21

Amen. Thank you for, for, for sharing all that and for, you know, sharing your story. And I'm sure we could have dove into all type of other stories and things that that went on, but, what could you, could, uh, close us out in a prayer?

Jimmy: 1:20:32

Yeah, I would love to man. I would love to father. Oh, Lord, I thank you for the opportunity to being with Omar tonight. Lord, Lord, I pray that, that, uh, the words of my mouth and his mouth were acceptable to you. Father God, that we gave you honor and praise Lord. You're so good Lord. I look back now when we, when we talk often, Lord, when we're on these podcasts, get an opportunity to think back in my life and, and in every moment and every second and every tear and laughter that you were there. And father, I, I asked that, that, Whatever ears hear this Lord, that it'll open their ears and their heart to you, Lord Jesus. I thank you for Omar, Lord. I ask that you bless him, bless this podcast, bless his family. Father God, I ask all this in the name above all names, Jesus Christ. Amen.

Omar: 1:21:20

Amen. Amen, brother. Hey, you know, before we sign off, could, could you share the, I know you have a website and can you also share the names of the books you've written? Oh yeah.

Jimmy: 1:21:33

Yeah, the, the, the, you can find the podcast under Spotify. Uh, it's under leadership at the frontline and there's it's Spotify. And then the, the, uh, the books are all found on Barnes and Noble. The first book is leadership at the frontline and it's called lessons learned, um, about loving, leading, and legacy from a warrior public servant. The second book, um, which really, which really Shelly and I wrote together, my wife and I co wrote, it's called, uh, Raising Courageous Children in a Cowardly Culture. And it's the battle for the hearts and minds of our children. It's just, it's our story. It's not a how to book. Um, actually that was the third book. The second book was called, the eagle and the seagulls. And it's a story I made up for my kids about how to face storms in your life. And it's, uh, it's, we call it a wisdom story for, for children and adults. Again, all this is on Barnes and Noble and uh, last October might be two years. We wrote, it's called, it was a children's series called Pop Up's Amazing Bedtime Stories. And it's, um, it's stories I made up for the kids. And, you know, it's the kids go spend the night at, uh, grandparents house, and they spend the night in a spare room. And there's, Basically a wagon and when they stay there, they play with the wagon, that wagon turns into one book, turns into an airplane and literally the kids fly the airplane to see their cousins. Another one, it turns into a submarine. Uh, and then the third one, it turns into a rocket ship. There's always a nemesis. There's always something that's trying to get them or something, but it's very light. It's imaginative. Um, uh, so yeah, we, we did that. That was a lot of fun, but it's been again, who, uh, you know, Who would've thunk at a guy that barely got outta high school So, uh, but it's been good. And like I said, it, it, uh, God's been good to us. Just been fantastic.

Omar: 1:23:23

Amen. Praise God. For, for God. And like you mentioned earlier too, like your wife, you know, like encouraging Yeah. Pushing you and Yeah. Holding, holding down the fort, the fort. Yeah. Man, at and doing everything. I wouldn't,

Jimmy: 1:23:34

I wouldn't be here. Trust me, I would not be here. Not for that.

Omar: 1:23:38

You know what, brother, I believe you have a website as well. If you want to, I do

Jimmy: 1:23:42

it's yeah, it's called, um, uh, geez, I hardly, but it's frontlineleadershipgroup. com that's frontlineleadershipgroup. com. And there's a couple of things. Some of the books are on there. Uh, there's some video, video of me on there. I got interviewed and a few other things, but you look that, uh, kind of spells out the things that I do and what the, uh, little companies just a little, it's me. You know, it's really just me. So, um, but again, God's been good to us.

Omar: 1:24:08

Amen. Yes, yes, he has. Man, I take, thank you for taking this time to spend with us. Uh, thank you for sharing your story, brother and a man, uh, appreciate you. Uh, God bless you, your, your marriage, your children, grandchildren, all the men that you're impacting, all the men that you're holding accountable. And yeah, leading with love, you know, that's, that's amazing,

Jimmy: 1:24:30

man. That's true. Working at home, man. Don't, don't lose your home.

Omar: 1:24:34

So that's right. We're going to get ready to, uh, to wrap up. Uh, I want to thank my brother for joining us. Uh, Matthew 4, 16 reads the people who sat in darkness have seen a great light. And upon those who sat in the region and the shadow of death light has dawned alongside my brother, Jim Capra. My name is Omar Calvillo. And we are wrong to strong.