"Beyond The Bars" - Life After 42 Years in Prison w/ David Ayala & Jimmy Soto

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW! This is the first interview that David Ayala and Jimmy Soto have done together since they were exonerated and released from prison back in December of 2023. They share their experiences with wrongful imprisonment, personal growth, and the transformation they have undergone since their release. They reflect on the importance of forgiveness and change. They also emphasize the need for community support, positive role models, and the role of the church in rehabilitation. They share their aspirations and bucket lists, including traveling, parachuting, and enjoying simple pleasures like decorating a Christmas tree. The discussion highlights the trauma of incarceration, the challenges of reintegration, and the importance of mentoring to help others avoid the same fate. They also touch on the impact of gentrification, cultural pride, and the necessity of peaceful celebrations. This concludes with insights on the significance of hospitality, gratitude, and a closing prayer for positive change and family prosperity.

Transcript

0:15

From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago and from around the country. Some of them were gang members, drug dealers, incarcerated victims, and perpetrators of violence. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, hope, faith and perseverance, these have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong

Omar: 0:58

To another episode of wrong to strong Chicago. I'm your host. My name is Omar Calvillo and tonight we got an EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW! Tonight I have alongside me, I have David Ayala and his cousin, Jimmy Soto. They got exonerated, I believe it was last December, after serving over 42 years in prison. And David was sharing with me a little while ago that this is the first time that they've done an interview together. So it's a privilege and an honor for me to have these brothers here. Welcome to the podcast, brothers.

David: 1:32

Thank you, Omar. It's a pleasure being here with you. Especially with my cousin here, uh, together, like you said, the first interview that we did together and, uh, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're praying for your success and your podcast. We believe your message is an important one and that's why we're here tonight.

Omar: 1:47

Thanks for that. Thanks for the support. Uh, and I know, yeah, like, man, like your story, we're talking a little while ago, how, man, that's, it went over like 20, 000 views on YouTube. And man, it just, you know, it drew others in and I know I interviewed Jimmy. So hopefully I'll be able to release it soon. You know? I'm waiting for the green light from him. So,

Jimmy: 2:03

no, you're definitely going to have the green light because, uh, what we're going to say, I think is important. What you do is important. And I'm, I'm, I'm the one that's humbled and honored to be here because, you know, you really showcase transformation. Change of in individuals. And I think that people need to understand that what PE someone might have done in their teens, you can't have that carry on when they're in in adulthood. You know? Uh, I think we talked about this last time, that in scripture it says when you were a child, you act like a child. You did child this thing. But now when you're an adult, you're expected to act a certain way. And so, you know, there is transformation. Even though we didn't do the crimes, we were con convicted of. We still went through transformation ourselves.

Omar: 2:49

Thanks for sharing that, brother. Now, I know like this came like last minute, you know, just over the weekend. I had actually invited these brothers. I'm gonna have a little gathering in October. I'm gonna try to get as many guests that have been on the podcast together and just, uh, you know, give them a thank you, you know, for sharing their story with us. Like you mentioned, uh, what we're trying to do here is, uh, Uh, share these stories, not, not maybe not to glorify the past, but to bring encouragement through those who have been through similar struggles and just to let them know that, you know, that, uh, to keep hope, you know, and that change is possible and, uh, freedom is possible, you know, so, uh, you know, let, let, let me ask you guys, whoever wants to go first, how has the transition been for you guys, you know, since, since you've been out, I know, I know you mentioned a little bit about it, but maybe give us an update, maybe of what's been going on in these last, uh, months. You know, a few months.

David: 3:35

Well, so since, since we did the podcast, which was, uh, when I was, uh, just released and, you know, you spoke on what my short term goals were, my longterm goals and, uh, one of the goals I mentioned was to get my own home. And I think I've mentioned, uh, you know, have my little, uh, my little lawn, chase the kids off, I'll be the only guy chasing the kids off. Yeah. So, you know, I, uh, accomplished that goal. And, uh, that's been my focus, putting my home together in the comfort level that I like, uh, just, just comfort, you know, um, uh, domestic life is, is, it works for me and, and it's been pretty good. Um, I'm employed now, which is another blessing. And uh, you know, the state took so much decades of our, so many decades of our, of our life, we should be retired by now at this, at this age. But because the state stole our, our, uh, years of our lives, we're, we're now getting in trouble. You know, for me, getting in the workforce and, um, dealing with all the responsibilities of a, of a homeowner. And it gives me appreciation for other homeowners. So you know, when I go down the street, my eye, now my eye is to see, oh, that guy has uh, perennials. And it looks like perennial flowers there. And I'm, and I'm learning these things and I'm liking these things. And for my cousin, he has a, he has a definite path, what he's doing and progressive path. To help others that are wrongfully convicted and left behind.

Omar: 4:57

You know.

David: 4:58

Never forgetting the ones left behind, but he could, he could speak on it

Jimmy: 5:02

better. Yeah, well, what I've been doing since I've been out, I've been working at the Northwestern School of Law as a paralegal. I worked at the Eviston Northwestern Campus as a research assistant. And I work at the University of Chicago as a community justice practitioner and fellow at the Center for the Study of Race, Politics, and Culture. So, you know, academics was something that was made available to me while I'm there. Unfortunately, David wasn't able to have those opportunities because they try to put, like, uh, I spoke about, Them trying to always put somebody in a niche and keeping them in that niche when you know, he was Definitely doing a lot of positive things in there. He was with the jcs with me, you know He was doing things to help people out He worked uh up front in the visiting room and he would take time to look when people had their Their kids there or when people had old elderly people to look out for them Make sure to get up the steps and everything sit down and make sure they're okay So this is the side that people don't understand that, you know You Those decades that we spend in there. We try to do our best to do positive things. And like I said, unfortunately, they took him out of state and he wasn't able to have the same opportunities, but I I really believe that if he was given these opportunities, he would have excelled in academics as well. Um, that being said, currently I'm going to be putting my early applications in for law school and I'm hoping to get into Northwestern. If I don't, you know, it's whatever God leads me to. Whatever university I get in, that's the university I'm supposed to be in. Um, you and I, Omar, had a conversation last time, and I know that, uh, it hasn't been released yet, but hopefully that would be part one, and this will be part two, and um, we spoke about, you know, a purpose of being in there, you know, and my purpose was, you know, helping people with their legal problems, as obviously there's a ton of that in there. And, you know, I became proficient at it and, um, helped get some people fully exonerated, etc. But, it's not about the accolades, it's why I was there, you know, it, it, I had to come to terms with, you know, why am I in there, you know, for all these years, constantly not getting it. And then, I told you. There was a purpose there to help others. It wasn't for me. It was for other people So we're putting places like you like you omar you're putting this place have this platform in order to put some messaging out there You know, that's in a sense your purpose in part You're probably going to go on to bigger and better things as well You don't know where it's going to lead you but one thing's for sure the spirit is going to take you where you need to be and you're going to be in that spot at the perfect time

Omar: 7:35

Thanks for sharing that. No, no, Jimmy, would you, how has, I know you mentioned what you're doing, you know, what are you getting involved in, but how was like a personal life, like transitioning, like maybe the last few years

Jimmy: 7:44

ago, it's been difficult for me, you know, to, you know, have, uh, uh, my personal relationships, you know, they're, they, uh, weren't what I wanted them to be. You know, you're trying to find your significant other. Uh, it's, it's not easy because I've been, you know, Without quote unquote being with somebody in the physical space of another woman and it's an unnatural thing Where you're you're put in these unnatural settings and so there's all sorts of temptations But you know, you just got to stay stay strong. And so What I mean by that it's a struggle even within the fine family dynamic, you know I live with my sister, but it's like she knows me but she was eight years old when I got in So we're just getting to know each other as well. I think it's the same might be true with David. His family are getting to know him as well or getting to know him again because we were gone so long. We might have had visits. We were able to communicate with them. But at the same time, it's not the same as being in that space on a regular basis. So that that's a struggle. I mean, let's be honest. These places grind you down. They're meant to destroy you. And What it does is that it makes you like, uh, have despair, you know, you, we have trauma. We came out with trauma, you know, that, you know, we don't even realize the extent of the depth of this, of this trauma. You know, like he said, they stole all these years and they also stole, um, uh, a part of our psyche. And so our spiritual, I could say this, our spiritual self, you know, what that's within us, which has been able to give us the strength to carry on because the mental. So, you know, if we just had that alone, our, our, our mental thing, I don't think, you know, we would have made it

David: 9:25

for me. There's like, um, like a lot of surprises that, uh, like he spoke about trauma. Don't you don't even realize the trauma because, uh, my friends could tell you my closest friends and wonder around me. Uh, one night. You know, I saw the moon and I was just marveling at this beauty of this beautiful moon And it struck me that this is a gift that god gives it to us It gives it to us every day every night There's a moon given to us and when we get this gift and I don't know if anybody appreciates the magnitude Of what this means, you know, it brought me to tears, you know, a lot a lot of things you know, just suddenly bring me to tears and you know, like, um, It's something that was surprising that uh, I never see as a weakness. It's not a weakness. It's a it's a human emotion and And that's, uh, that's where we are, we're humans. And something that, uh, like, uh, the week before, uh, last, when my sister called me, I was in a restaurant, and we were waiting, we would take out, uh, restaurant, and she's like, come here, David, come here. It was raining that day, and she said, look, it's a rainbow. And, uh, I hadn't seen a rainbow probably 40 years or whatever, you know? And then we seen a rainbow, and I was like, man, that, that thing was marvelous. It's a marvelous thing. And I looked around and the people were just going about their business not even taking the time to look at that rainbow So these things that uh, you know when you're deprived of seeing the moon and because you're you go to sell You're locked up at say latest at nine o'clock You're locked in that cell until breakfast time in the morning six o'clock or five whatever that prison runs a breakfast line at So you're not going to see the moon You're not going to see the stars and when you see them for me now when I see them You know, driving down the street and I see a sunset, you know, it touched me deeply. So that's, um, it's what we were deprived of, but now it's a blessing. It's a blessing to have that appreciation for these, for these things.

Omar: 11:11

There's, uh, things that people out here like take, take for granted. Like you mentioned, I have people just going by the day, another rainbow, another moon, like, but to use like say significant base. I can't

David: 11:20

remember Omar, if I mentioned it too, but, uh, it was the first time that I walked a dog. So my brother in law, Joe, he, uh, you know, my sister, they, they rescued dogs, they had two dogs. One is kind of feisty, that's my favorite dog. And, uh, he said, let's take the dogs for a walk, and we took the dog for a walk. I had one dog, he had the other dog, and as we were taking the dog for a walk, You know, I'm looking at the dog and I see the dog sniffing the ground and I'm thinking to myself, what is this dog? I don't know what this dog's thinking about. And I see a pretty squirrel go by. And I was just thinking, man, this, this is like tremendous experience for me. I hadn't walked a dog for over 42 years. It's been over 42 years and I walk a dog and it just, it just touched me. These things touched me deeply.

Omar: 12:02

Yeah. I mean, especially, I know they're like, they say, uh, uh, dogs are like man's best friend that there's something about them, man. I think they, they said even like when, uh, when you're like petting a dog, that something happens, like physically like in the body, like it does something. But, uh, and I know you too. I know you were mentioning the moon and you mentioned you hadn't seen, I believe it was a sunrise. Yeah. But we were talking Do, do you wanna share that? It's,

Jimmy: 12:24

it's the same type of thorough, uh, thing, ethical thing that Dave's talks about that I seen the sun. Uh rise and to me it was like I hadn't seen in 25 years because I was always in a cell That you know didn't have a sunrise there. So I seen sunsets But uh to see the sun rise, it's like, you know, it was really really cathartic to me and I got emotional too I got it and I and I still do I go up to the beach of the lakefront I go early in the morning and I love to be there to see the sunrise and there's other people that are there But to to us It's like a new experience because we have not been able to experience that. So it's like, it's beautiful, but it also has like this really deep emotional effect on us, I think, or maybe even a spiritual one, to be honest, because you know, you're not able to, I was eating like, uh, a peach the other day, a fresh peach, and I'm just looking at it, marveling at it, even how, how Good. It tasted, you know, the, I mean, wow, we were talking about, uh, watermelons, the same thing. A lot of this fresh food and stuff was taken out of the prisons and they were, you wouldn't get it that often. So to have it readily available, just those really simple things is like, wow, it's like so great and wonderful. You know, it's a blessing to have that and being able to enjoy it. And I, and I do, I savor every bite of that.

David: 13:45

So Omar, so yeah, yeah. So I became new to Facebook and the reason why I was, uh, becoming new to Facebook because everybody was asking me the people that had, uh, I was trying to be careful who I'll get my number to and, uh, the people were wondering what I was doing. So they said the easiest way how to show everybody what you don't put on Facebook, what you're doing. He makes jokes in the way I put on Facebook, but so posted. You said, I

Omar: 14:06

posted, posted, I took

David: 14:08

off. A bath. This is the first bath that I had in 42 years. And so, you know, most people just take a shower. Well, that day, my, you know, I was working, I was exercising and my whole shoulder were, everything was sore. And I said, I'm going to take a bath. I took a bath. So I told my girl to take, take, take a picture of Facebook. I posted, I took it down today. They're saying that is inappropriate. There's something, I wasn't exposing myself or anything, but, uh, they say that's, that's like a little bit too personal, but you know, I'm traversing that world too, to know, you know, What's appropriate? What's not appropriate? People scrutinize you. They want to see what color clothes you wear. You happen to wear some color clothes. They're saying, Oh, now you're back in this or whatever, whatever your expectations, you're thinking negative. That's your thinking. That's not my thinking. So I'm secure. Whatever color I want to wear, it could be any color. If that happens to be some part of some group or whatever that group is, it's just a color choice that I make for that day. And, um, you know, I was speaking to my cousin here and I was telling him, You know, we have passed by some of these parks that were traditionally gang infested neighborhoods. And now, the developers come and they gentrify the area. And so now, you know, it's a whole different demographic in that neighborhood, you know? And I'm not hating on the gentrifiers that come through there, or the developers either, although, you know, they push out the people that have been living there forever. Property taxes go up and the people can't afford to live in that neighborhood. But it struck me. You know, I realize there's people that lost their lives, you know, holding, holding down that park, that little, that little park right there, people have lost their lives, and the developers come in there and take over that whole area without firing one single shot, and next thing you know, those people that lost their lives, they lost their lives in vain. Because now there's someone else or you never own that park. So you're saying that's your park. That's our park. It ain't your park. It's not your park. Because you now you see that people have developed in that area. Maybe even tear the park down. And so it's just something that I wish the people out there that are involved in the gang life could realize. You know, like, um, you know, tragedy, tragedy, these happen. What about your family? Do you know the cost of a funeral? And you know, you want to be involved in this life. You've taken a chance with your life. You end up dead. You're leaving your family with a financial burden. I don't think there's many people that plan for the funeral expenses. In that lifestyle, you know, maybe as you get older, you start planning, you start thinking ahead. You want to, you want to make it, uh, not a burden on your family. You know, I know some people to make funeral arrangements, but they're, they're not involved in any kind of nefarious activity. They're just, they're just good thinkers planning ahead. But, uh, I know that, uh, recently there was a couple of murders in Chicago and, um, I just, I know they were raising some money, uh, her to third parties that, you know, this family was struggling to pay the funeral costs. And I'm just thinking, you know, you're putting a burden on your family, bro. Tragedy all around. It's just, it's a sad, sad thing, you know?

Omar: 17:03

Yeah. You're right. It's not just like the, the loss of life, but man, the financial hit that a lot of times families have to borrow money and all. They're getting in debt, try to try to be a blessing in a sense, right? Like to go in,

Jimmy: 17:16

um, to add to what David is saying that, uh, you know, it's really, really deep. Um, my studies and my personal observation of everything that's going on, uh, out here, it's like this, it's, it goes back really, to the earliest times in Mesoamerica where you see the colonizers, the Spaniards come in and they had you hate your fellow indigenous person. Then they would have you hate yourself, hate the woman. And so years and years, and this is generational trauma. I mean, people may not know the history of the United States, but in the Southwest, they were hanging Mexicans. They were hanging Mexicans more than they were hanging black folks in Southwest, uh, United States at around, you know, 1818 mid 1800s. And so, you know, there was that whole fight that they had there. It wasn't only about land It was all about, you know control and they had signs that I remember when I went to El Paso, Texas as a kid It said no whites only and they said dogs allowed no Indians or Mexicans in these restaurants you know, and I'm, I'm, I'm saying that to say, like David said, you know, um, we are fight or people are fighting for, uh, turf. areas and this and that. And this is just a reiteration of what happened centuries ago of this self hate and hating ourselves, our own community. Like right now, it's for Mexicans, the 16th of September is coming up. And I seen something that my, my sister showed me that people are saying, let's have Mexican pride. And one of it was talking about like, let's show these Venezuelans. And I, once again, it's that criminalization, that othering of the brown body that they're showing, okay, these guys are this, the same thing they do with the Mexican Puerto Rican, or, you know, however they play us against each other. And when I say they, I'm talking about the status quo, the power structure that really runs this country. And so if they can keep us, you know, in this cycle of hate and violence, Then they maintain control and that's really what it's all about. But if you change that dynamic and you bring in, you know, uh, uh, loving yourself, then it, it changes. And that's all through, you know, spiritual, uh, healing. And it's cause so much hurts out there. It's time to heal. It's time to restore, you know, it's time for that. That's what we need.

Omar: 19:36

Yeah. Yeah. No, one thing I wanted to ask, I know it's probably off topic, But that came to my mind earlier. How many men did you see in prison that it was father and son behind bars? Cause I know I was only locked up for three years, but I got to see that. Like a couple where it was father and son. And I see, and the reason I bring that up is like the generational, almost like a generational curse, generational stronghold. Uh, so that was just a question that came to my, to

Jimmy: 20:02

my, I'll answer that real quick. I seen a lot of it, you know, I'm sure David has too, but there was one in particular where you had the grandfather, you had the son. Um, I mean, the, the father and you had the son and then you had uncles and nephews, just one family. You had all that, all the same last name locked up, you know? So yeah, it's definitely generational.

David: 20:22

I remember there was a father and son. They had the same, the same name. He was junior. And, uh, this, this guy who was father son, he was doing the son was junior and they lived in the same cell. And so when they would bring the mail, the officer would say the name and they didn't know which one was the mail was intended for. But uh, I was thinking when I saw that, that, that father and son, like, um, you know, how would it be if I was ever in prison with my father, which I don't think would ever, ever happen. You know, but, and I'm not judging those guys, you know, they may have been innocent men too, but, uh, it just, it just struck me, it struck me, uh, how it would have affected their family. You know, how would affect that particular family? Um, the, I won't say the primary breadwinners, but maybe they are, you know, because a woman are just as equal and qualified to, to bring, uh, money home to, you know, they're just as qualified in many cases, more qualified, you know, some, some, I think we need more, uh, uh, female leaders in the communities or political scene or something. I think that, uh, maybe we'll have some more women, uh, um, Taking the lead, there'll be less problems. That's how I feel about it.

Omar: 21:31

Okay. And the reason I bring that up, cause I was thinking, I know you guys are talking about change and maybe changing the mindset mentality, like as men, like, cause I've, I've, I've interviewed a few people where they were like almost like bred to be gangbangers since they were little, like, and it came from the, like you mentioned, grandfather, father, uncles. And like, if you think about it, like it'll be easy to judge these, these young men, right. They'll say they go into their lifestyle to commit crime. But they were like basically raised like to be there. Like how, how, how can you like, you know, like not judge them, but yeah, you know, like to judge them when, when they were raised or how, how could we. I guess break that like starting with like families that are like almost um, Like reproducing that kind of lifestyle like as men What could we begin to do to break

David: 22:19

that if you truly love your your child you truly love Someone very close to you, you know that you don't you really don't want that for them Now if you're trying to build a dynasty for instance or something like that And then you say well i'm going to put my blood relative because I know that blood relative has my back But it's it's really uh It's you haven't evolved enough to know that you should always want something better. You should always want something better for your child. And if you're leading them to a path that's inevitable for you to go to jail or, or get killed or something like that, then you know, what kind of love is that? But um, it's, it's, it's, it's, I look at that and then, uh, you know, to be honest with you, I say that guy's a fool. That guy right there is a fool because if you really love your son or your child, your daughter, you wouldn't want that for, for them.

Jimmy: 23:06

I agree with David saying absolutely. You know, I mean, if you don't want to see your kids, you want. Every generation wants to see the next generation do better and to have that it's really their priorities are not in the right place They're probably have trauma themselves, you know that generational trauma We talked about and this all this really is like I want you to be what I was, you know But this comes a point where like you said you got to break that cycle and how do you do that? I mean to me I did what the Old Testament says It says if you teach the child of the ways of the Lord He'll always come back to it. So they're not getting these principles this moral compass at a young age Then of course, they're going to go to the streets Of course, they're going to go and to look into that gang life to think that's what it is But there's no longevity. I mean you could really look there's very few old timers that are in their 50s gang banging You know, this isn't something it's like you don't see no old drug dealers, you know There might be a few don't get me wrong, but it's very rare because people grow out of that This is something that you you mature and you realize hey, man, this ain't for me You know, at some point you guys seen it in prison. I seen it out here. People aren't doing that, you know, but you know, I firmly believe that if you teach the child what's right and wrong or more a better path, they will those principles will stay with them.

Omar: 24:21

You bring up that scriptures, uh, uh, train up a child in the way he should go and when he's older, he shall not depart from it. Uh, there, there was a brother I interviewed here, uh, that he said, uh, uh, that's where scripture applies both ways. Cause he said, if you train up a child to be a killer, he's going to grow up, grow up to be a killer. Cause he said that his, his father would like beat the mom and pull, pull a gun on him and his brother when they were little. And he learned this. Um, behavior. Yes. So then he grew up and that eventually when he was older, he, he went down that path. So he said that scripture like applies both ways, like you could train them up in the ways of God. But if you teach them to be a criminal, he's going to, he's going to grow up to be a criminal, you know? So that's, that, that's pretty, um, messed up in a sense, right? Like

David: 25:05

to break these patterns, the pattern for so many of us in our communities to, to break the pattern, to, to leave that life. Everybody has their own story of how change came about in their life. I want to say there's a one fit for everybody, but, uh, I know there's some commonalities with the people. If you think about the people, well, me and my cousin here come from the people who didn't get involved in those sort of activities, and I think I mentioned this before, it's a parents that have a tight rein on their child and, uh, you know, like. This is a mother who's going to be there in your face, get you away from this. You're not going to be at a park. You might try to sneak out the window or something. It's not going to work for very long. And they'll just take you to expose you to some other things. You know, like in my personal life, I wasn't exposed to some of those things that would have took me away from running around the neighborhood. And I think that probably if I, if I would have, I think I would have excelled in other, in other areas of my life, you know, but, uh, now the, it's for the parent, the guardian to. To identify how we could take this person here, you know, like, um, my father, he had a lot of, a lot of custom work done at the home. And, uh, these carpenters are these ingenious carpenters who make nice things in the house. And, uh, I used to always watch them. And then, uh, I think those guys used me because, like, they'll say, Hey, carry the tools here. You can carry our tools and watch us work. And I was watching them work, and they'll take something out of nothing and make a really beautiful thing here. And I think that, uh, If you know, I'm not talking about degrading my father's parenting skills, but if he would have harnessed my curiosity and my interest there, then put me in a, in a trade, a trade vocational school. And I probably would have been like Norm Abrams or a master conference. So, you know, uh, you have to take what, what the, the young child is interested in, harness that and hopefully it'll go to something positive and something, uh, worthwhile, lucrative for the guy, you know, can make a living on this. Right.

Jimmy: 27:03

Okay.

Omar: 27:04

Do you want to follow

Jimmy: 27:04

up anything? Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it's not only with a lot of families that that traditional nuclear family father, mother there, you know, a lot of families want to be single parents, but that's not always the case. Even if you have both parents, like David said, the child could go go to school or whatever way they can get out the house and go sneak off and hang out in the hood and wind up banging. Uh, so that's on the one end you have. People that come from a solid family, and on the other hand you have people coming from dysfunctional families, and so, you know, family is where it starts, to be honest, right? Uh, I mean, but, you know, ultimately the child gets old enough that they're going to make their own decisions, and, um, I, we spoke about this a little bit last time, that, Your brain doesn't develop until you're 25 years old. That's a, uh, a biological or physiological fact. And so if your brain's not fully developed, how could you make these cognitive, you know, uh, informed decisions? You're making rash decisions, and if you look at really when crime happens, it happens from the age of 15. To 21 is the primary age when people are are do a lot of particularly when you see these gang banging or gang related debts, you know, that's when they happen and um, Unfortunately, you know, there's all the factors that there are also there's the socio economic factors, you know, lack of employment poor housing, you know, Uh lack of uh investment in communities, etc and so forth, you know lack of investment in public schools So all these factors mix into a volatile You formula, which we see these cycles just continue because they people don't feel they have they have any way out. I've met individuals in there that never left the Chicago area or for that matter left. Their area in Chicago. They never left like they live on the south side. They've never been to the west or the north side. You know, they just stay contained in their little area. Yeah, it's true.

David: 29:00

This we took recently we went on a boat ride. It was historical boat ride. And, you know, these sometimes buildings or some of these buildings there. I always saw them. I always went downtown. We saw these buildings. I never knew the history of the building. Oh, that was the Ridley building right there. And this is what happened there. And it was interesting to me, but some people are stuck in their, in their, in their neighborhoods and they never, they never leave those neighborhoods. But it's just, um, like when I said, uh, you know, there's a lot of Humboldt Park. You have Pilsen. We called it 18th street all my life. And there's a lot of, a lot of changes happening there. And like I said before, you know, people, they were gangbanging in those areas, you know, held down, they thought they were holding down the area. You don't hold that area down. You see the developers come in and move you out without firing one single shot. You lost something that you thought you were holding down. You never were. So this is just like somebody, you open your eyes and you see these things, you realize these things. And it's just interesting to me. You know, the night, the dynamic of, you know, like versus the gangs, right? So, you know, you, you are, this is what you are, that's your identity. Your whole substance is, that's, that's your identity. And all you know is that's what that guy is. So you just, you don't know that person, uh, personally or anything like that. You just know this is my identity and that's his identity and we're fighting. Why? They can't even tell you. All you know is some guy got killed constantly and it's going back and forth and you're not thinking about the tragedy. The harm you're doing. We have beautiful communities, very beautiful communities, but they're tainted by this activity going there. Recently, some young guy, he was a soccer player. He was going to be the captain of the team and little village area got killed. He was an innocent guy. This guy had nothing to do with anything. And he was in that area and he was killed. So, uh, just a tragedy all the way around. And when I see these things, I just shake my head and just say, wow, you know, this is, this is, this, this happens. And okay. So how does this stop? How can this possibly stop? You could do March. I want out of March. We want a peace march. You know, okay, that's for that night. What about tomorrow? You know, don't the people within these groups are advocating. You could advocate something better. You could advocate. Let's stop this. You know, when I was when I was growing up, um, Well, I, I lived right on 26th Street, the commercial 26th Street, so like there wasn't anywhere near, I could, I can go to 31st Street to, to Petroski Park, Hewlett Park, and get involved in some sports there, that's a walk, especially in the wintertime, so, you know, well, we have, what they say, uh, out on this is the devil's workshop, you know, now we're, we're hanging around the street, you know what's easy in those neighborhoods? Getting some liquor. You know in uh, whether the liquor store guy won't sell it to you. We get a runner. Yeah, we'll buy you You're a damn bump. We'll give you a couple bucks and you can go get us and this guy has no school bus He'll go get us a young kid Some drink, we'll drink in Boone's farm, easy nights, stepping out all these to a Boone's farm, uh, uh, bottles, night train, wild Irish rose, all the white port and Kool Aid, bumpy face gin, the hello, Mad Dog 2020, this, okay, yeah, so, and, and, and, and, uh, black communities, they have, uh, desert, uh, fruit deserts, you know, they don't have access to good fruits. We have diabetes in those in those neighbors right there. Well, you can get cigarettes in that neighborhood and liquor and liquor in that neighborhood. You could you could get some condoms, you know, but what about the fruits? You know, thank God for the for the mothers and the grandmothers who make their own garden. You know, they make their own garden and then because they're precluded because you're gonna have every other kind of store there But a fruit store or health store and then and then what happens when uh the poor community Businessman small businessman builds. I saw the thing and um, it's unfortunate. He build a electronics Uh, business in, in the, in the neighborhood and somebody took the, the vehicle and smashed into the building. I kept smashing into there and robbed all his stuff and it's like the second robbery he had there. And, uh, he did an interview on the news. He said, look, I'm trying to, I'm trying to provide a service for the community that never was there. And what happens? They take the vehicle and smash it in there. And when I saw this, I was just thinking to myself, I know when me and my cousin here will drive down the street. We will get stopped for, for no probable cause. They stop us, they stop us, search our car, put us on there and in the summertime search, turn the car up and all this stuff. And, uh, where are they now? And I'm not speaking against the police officers. They have a job. They have a great job to do, but, uh, where were they when they were smashing this car back and forth? What were they when the taco truck guy that got robbed three times? He's just trying to serve some food for the community. He's a small businessman trying to make it provide for his family and and this crime. It's very unfortunate and um When I was in cook county jail You know, they they isolated me after like four days. They isolated me when two days so many guys talked about jimmy Jimmy soto did that he's a great guy. I said you can't tell me nothing more than what I know about my cousin Of course, he's a great guy, but he helped so many guys get back in court You And, uh, but when I saw these young guys in the county, I would ask them, Hey, so what are you doing with your case? And I was not going to speak in Greek to them. They didn't understand anything. I said, look, you guys are worried about commissary and you're worried about who's going to take your phone call and you're worried about who's. Going out with your girlfriend, but you're not understanding what's going to happen with your with your case You're not you're not asking the right questions And before you know it you're gonna you're gonna forfeit your your rights that did you have available at this time? Because there's timelines and deadlines he could speak

Omar: 34:36

Actually, I was I was listening to it to your podcast like during the week and then you were talking about I think it was after three and a half years There was like a, like a deadline for something for appeal or post

Jimmy: 34:48

conviction, post conviction, there's timelines and everything. Like he's right. But if you don't preserve those rights at the trial level or, or post right there, like once you're convicted. You waive a lot of that, and then, you know, you can never litigate it, and you're precluded, and yeah, you can blame it on your lawyer, but it's a hard fight, it then becomes the fight, you know, so, yeah, he told him right, I mean, I've seen so many people in there thinking that there's gonna be this magical change, uh, with the law. I haven't seen a change truth and sentencing been on the book since 99, you know, so I'm currently trying to change that I'm working in in some movements So one is building communities not prisons, but you know, I'm just it's like a little drop in this big ocean I'm not making too many waves. I'm trying to get them to do it But uh, it's gonna be it's gonna take everybody getting together and and instead of like he said fighting each other And then maybe possibly winding up in prison or they got homies in prisons, you know, and if you really care about that individual, you want to see him come back out or her come back out. And, you know, they're not going to change these laws unless we demand it. And we got to just, you know, Coalition bills, and like you said, they're taking over our neighborhoods. They're de investing in these neighborhoods. You had this whole, um, immigrant Venezuelan problem, you know. And so, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do that we've been in this city, or those that have been in this city for so long, you know. When is enough is enough? When are we gonna say, we need to start changing? Yes, we have to change. Our mindset and what we're doing, but we have to get the power structure to change too, you know, to change these laws, give these individuals pathways for release. Because if we didn't, if we didn't come out the way we did, we were going to die in prison. It's simple as that.

Omar: 36:30

Yeah. You know what? I know you guys mentioned about like the advice you're giving because I go into Cook County like on Mondays and I go like to, to, to witness to these guys, you know, do a Bible study with them. But I know you mentioned certain things that they should be doing while they're in there. You want to mention maybe some of those things that come to mind, because like you said, they're worrying about the wrong things when they should be focused maybe on some important things that can help them in the long run.

David: 36:54

Well, they have to understand that they have to understand like their next court date. What does that consist of? What are we doing here? What is, what is my lawyer doing? Uh, I don't know. Are they, are they doing the investigative work to see the witnesses that are available now because they may not be in the future? And you have, like you said, you have a deadline on your post conviction if, uh, past your conviction. And, uh, your focus is on other things, uh, and then next, you know, uh, the whole legal world passes you, tramples over you and runs you over and now you're just a victim of, uh, of the, of the system, the criminal system, you know, judicial system. But, what I would recommend for those guys to do. Um, yeah, well, they don't feed you good in Cook County Jail. I just left Cook County Jail in December. And Cook County Jail, for breakfast, you get a peanut butter sandwich. And every two weeks you get two, two boiled eggs, but it doesn't deviate from there. And every lunch you get a bologna sandwich. So you get one sandwich for, for breakfast and you're getting the sandwich for lunch. And so then the commissary prices are just so incredibly high. And you get a regular dinner. A friend of ours, Robert, he, he posted a picture on his Facebook tray and he says, I'm hum, I'm humble now. With the blessings I have because this is what I used to eat and I ate this for years and it's true. Some of that stuff we call a mystery meat. We don't even know what, we don't know what that was. You know, it was like, um, some people say, I want to feed that to my dog. Well, I like, I like dogs, so I definitely wouldn't feed that to the dog, you know what I mean? But uh, it was just so, I would tell my advice to those guys over there, quit chirping about who runs this phone. You know, who, you know, share that damn phone. Well, you know, don't worry about, uh, insignificant things that aren't gonna help you get, gain your freedom, acquire your freedom, get, you know, get your freedom. And so, you know, think about something better, but um, You know, like right now, you know, like I said, sometimes watch the news very depressing to me to see, you know, another It's always the same some little girl got shot. Some guy got shot some local innocent person got shot And I know you know shortly after we got released, you know, I I had the pleasure of meeting Uh, somebody who was, you know, uh, at one part of my life, he would, we would consider him a rival, you know, and he was, uh, of my generation. And then we, we sat down, we met and, and I was, somebody else that was there and said, let's take a picture. I said, yeah, let's take a picture, man. Come

Omar: 39:16

here.

David: 39:16

And he's like, you know, I'm concerned, you know, some people might take offense to the picture. I said, no, you're wrong. You are wrong. This is the picture we're supposed to take. This is the picture that we should put out there. We should put this wherever people could see to say this guy. Has credentials and credibility in that world at one point in time, that guy that was with and who knows, maybe someone could say the same thing about me. And then they say, if this guy can do that, and that guy can do it, and these guys were not just some Just anybody guys this was somebody here and they can do it. Then this would be an example for others to do too Yeah, that's your brother. Why are you fighting your brothers? Why are you fighting your brothers, you know for your identity purposes? You need to stop that, you

Omar: 39:59

know, hey, you know what if I go back during your interview you mentioned about When you were, I believe it was in times or where you were at and just sharing, I think maybe a noodle or a cup of coffee or something. And you mentioned that it was maybe like, uh, somebody, let's say on the, on the other side, right? Like a rival, whatever you want to call it. And they start looking out for each other. Like, man, like, yeah, these are the guys that begin to, to, to, to, to look out for you, no matter where you're at. Right.

David: 40:24

You know what happens? So they say, Man, they, the state, they took us and they put us in the prison five hours away or six hours, however far Menard is. That's a, that's a drive right there and say, you know, my family, you know, uh, my girlfriend, she don't want to come together. Hey bro, you know, you're, you're, you're close to us. We're, we're, we're from the same community. We're just a little bit apart and you know, can we carpool and you know how many times I've seen over the years, guys that were finding each other, you're serving time for murder for that guy's group and vice versa. And next thing you know, after a certain period of time, you find out that you actually have a need, uh, that the other one could help you out with. And, um, now you girls are carpooling. Now you, it's like, wow. You know, like, uh, So all those young guys that are doing this thing at some point in their life if they ever come to prison They're gonna come to the realization because it's such a closed environment that you know, that dude's not a bad guy

Omar: 41:20

Right.

David: 41:20

This dude, this dude's cool. He's like me We're just flying different colors and we're from different areas and different organization But uh, actually there's the same interest the same sense of humor You have the same sense of humor. You like the same music, you know. Right, exactly. And it's, it's, it's just something that some people, it takes a while for them to, to understand it.

Jimmy: 41:40

Do you want to? Oh, well, what I would tell those individuals that you're going to county jail with is, like you said, get like the discovery material early on. A lot of, uh, public defenders, and this is no shade on them, they'll tell them they can't have it, when in fact that's not true. They're able to at least view it. They need to go through that, and really if they have to have several visits, the lawyer gotta let you look at everything that the state got against you, the prosecution got against you. And then you can mount some type of attack against that, you know, like he said, investigative work, et cetera. You know. Um, another thing that they need to realize is that, you know, when they come to prison, like he said. Um, we're not like, uh, the western part of the United States prisons, where they separate rival groups. They won't put Norteños and Surreños together over there and etc. Whereas here, you're going to be likely, they put you in the cell with somebody, what they call Ops, your Opposition. You're going to go in there with somebody who you thought was your Op. They do that on purpose, and that's the way IDOC does it, because they feel like, okay, we're not going to have them together in the same group because they're going to start plotting. So they, that's how they do it. So that's one thing. The second thing is you're going to be with somebody almost like 23 hours a day minimum. Uh, if you're not on lockdown, you know, you're gonna have to smell his feces, you're gonna have to put up with his, with his ways, he's gonna have to put up yours, you know, visits may not come through, the phone's gonna be, you're not gonna get that much phone access, you know, so it's not gonna be what you think it's gonna be, um, it's like you said, lousy food, you're gonna have to rely on commissary, a lot of times they don't have the items on commissary, you know, a lot of times you're not gonna have money, Cause people are going to start as you're in there more years, people are going to start sending you stuff so, your homies that you think are going to be there, they're going to fade away too, you know, they're not going to be looking out for you. They're not going to get you a lawyer, you know, why aren't they getting you a lawyer now? You know? So this is the point, they really need to Look at and what is really going on with their life, you know, and it takes a while It takes a while and that's goes back to that maturity that I told you about it takes a while for it to set in But they're gonna realize real quickly that you know Everything that they've been fighting for this whole belief system that they had or this political identity or social identity It's all been a farce. Yeah. You know, like I said, we have more in common. The idioms are more, are the same. Yeah.

Omar: 43:58

And then it's like a lot of the guys that I see are young man, 18, 19 and their 20s. And it's, it's, it's sad to see, you know, that they're like in the beginning of it. And a lot of them are fighting like some serious stuff, you know? So this

David: 44:09

guy says, you know, so, you know, I don't know, like I said before, if it's, you know, We're a people of warriors, you know, we have warrior blood and boiling inside of us, you know, so we see the guy a warrior mentality takes over something but You know, when I was in Cook County Jail, I see some young guys and they look strange to me. They even have strange haircuts from what I'm used to. This guy looks silly. You know what I mean? He looks like he was in the Amazon jungle, but he didn't have a barber to cut his hair for him.

Omar: 44:34

They call it the Edgar. It looks like an Incas. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: 44:37

Trying to offend anybody. That's how I view them. And, uh, you know, I'm sure you guys probably had afros

Omar: 44:42

back in the days. You know,

David: 44:47

but, um, so like, and I say before, like I said, they isolated me right away. They even told me you, you slipped through the system. You were supposed to be, I said, why you stigmatized me so much? I've been gone. I've been in other states. Talk to those, uh, officers over there and tell them what I was doing over there in that state. Mind my own business. Stay in my lane. You know what I mean? I could do time better by myself without worrying about somebody else's problem. I couldn't, I, I, I, I'm not gonna, you know, I could solve my own problem. I don't have them. And so when I see these young guys, little macho guys, You know, one guy put the radio up and I talked so lower. I'm getting on the phone, put up louder. Come here, I'm gonna talk to you over here. And so you don't understand this. I'm talk to you in another kind of way. I send something different, you know, but so like there was the macho thing all of a sudden now, but, um, it's just, uh, they need to change the mentality and some of these things, you know?

Omar: 45:34

I think for that they need like, um, different leadership I guess. Or mentoring. Or mentoring. There you go. That, that's a big word. You know that. I think that's the word that I had. I never grew up like hearing about a mentor. What, what, what was the importance of having a mentor, especially one that's going to show me in the right way, I guess. Well, David

Jimmy: 45:52

spoke about me helping some guys with the legal work, but when I take on a case and I didn't want to take, I couldn't help everyone. You know, you, you are, I am mentoring a lot of those young guys that come to me, you know, you know, And, uh, I told you the crazy thing that I wouldn't be charging these guys, so I was just doing it to refine my skills to, to, to help me with my case. But the point is that, uh, I, I mentored a lot of guys in there. A lot of them, I, I guided them towards, um, towards education or programming or, you know, and telling them the realities of like, like I mentioned about, you know, how they, this is just a generational thing and they taught us to, you know, Hate ourselves and hate others. I mean, I don't hate myself. I don't think anyone will say they hate themselves. What I mean by when I say that they hate themselves to say that the white skin, the lighter skin is better than any other skin, the brown skin or the black skin. So there's that skin construction that construct that your skin color identifies who you are and makes you less than. The people that are in power. And so that is like I said, that's that generational thing to say that you're not as worthy or you're not the same as someone with a lighter skin construction when that's again, that's a lie. But we're taught that and we and it goes to generation because I, I look at it now. I go to a lot of academics settings and I'm able to hold my own and I see a lot of people there that can do it as well. People with people of color. But the point is that, you know, like I said, yeah. It's this, this thing, this warrior mentality, this thing that comes out. All the time. And, uh, you know, it's something that's in us and it's something that has, you could, you could, you could, uh, deescalate, you can get it out of you. You don't have to all the time be confrontational. It's not easy to do, but the mentoring comes in there. And that's what I would do. I like that. You don't have to do that. Like, like he talks about the respect. You got to show respect in order to get it. If I'm not respecting, you know, the noise level that I got, like there's still black radios in it. These boom boxes that guys will play. And you know, like he said, it could be annoying. They can play music that you may not like, but they think by turning it up all the way that everybody's enjoying it. No, everybody's not enjoying it. I'm doing schoolwork, you know? I would talk to them and tell them, you know, hey, listen, man, you want people to respect you. You want to get the phone. You think people are playing you for the phone. You're not going to get any respect by not respecting others. So it's these little life lessons that, you know, you have to give to the younger generation. At

David: 48:12

that time, at that time, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to be tolerant about anything. I'm just going to be honest with you. I'm not going to be, I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm not going, I'm not going to have a tolerance level. Not saying I have short fuse or something like that, but if you can't understand this language, then let's talk this other language But that's right now this we don't need this stuff on the streets because this is like up when I got out Omar I've seen some new stories and I haven't talked to some guys It was when this couple guys hadn't seen for a while or he said, you know, that guy got shot ten times He's still walking around. I got got shot ten times Wow, these guys must be the people who are doing the shooting must be going to the gun range And they must be really honing in on their skills. And then I found out, no, it's not that. They have these long clips, right? The accessibility of these firearms in these neighborhoods are, is a big cause for this happening because, um, you can, you can, I don't know, I'm not in that lifestyle, but I'm pretty sure you can, uh, get some money and buy a most lethal, uh, firearm and one with a long clip. And then, uh, you, you could, you could be. Jose Feliciano, you could be a great child. You could be a blind guy and you've got this long clip and you're going to shoot, you're going to shoot that street up. You're going to shoot somebody 10 times. Now you're not a good shot. You're not a marksman or sharpshooter or expert of firearms person. You're just somebody who has a long, large capacity. Clip and that's why you're shooting these people and this is why the accessibility of these farms in these neighborhoods is what's causing this tragedies and this destruction in our neighborhood You

Omar: 49:42

know, that's something that I didn't see back then like in the 90s But you're right like I know the had to be a month month and a half ago. I believe it was a sheriff They got, uh, killed at a gas station. It was, uh, like a carjacking, and they said they shot over 70 times. Yeah. At'em with a extended clip. And like, man, that's something that back then, I don't know, I, I never heard like as common, I guess as, as now, and I tell you, I'll

David: 50:06

tell you almost so like I told you, like, uh, me learning about the Facebook world, right. And uh. I'm getting away from that too, but, uh, these guys, they're, they're, uh, my cousin could tell you, they're, they're, they're ignorant, you know, they're stupid guys. They're taking a, uh, they're taking a video, and they're showing the guns they got, and they're doing all the kind of, uh, Gang representation symbols that is going to be people's exhibit a people's exhibit a in front of a jury Well, you go to trial because you're going to get pinched sooner or later and they're gonna put those images on and and big screen In the jury and the jury's gonna see that and you're gonna go to prison They're gonna say why did I even take such a foolish thing? It's a stupid thing to do. You

Omar: 50:44

know, there was a guy here He was doing our videos Love City So he does like videos for, you know, for, for people, you know, for cheap. And that's, that's his way to reach the youth. And, uh, he tells them that he don't, he ain't going to do no videos with guns in the videos. And he's like, man, I'm looking out for you. Cause some, some people wanted to do that, you know, like throw their guns in the video and stuff. But he told him, man, they're going to use that against you. Like in a fed case, I forget what, what he called it, but he said, let's say you get charged with something else. They could grab these pictures and like add time to your sentence. So I forget what, um, Extend the sentence. Yeah, there was a word he used that, uh, like, um, Circumstance something that even though it's not part of the case the judge could look at those pictures and videos and because of this like give you more time because you're already Is there wasn't like a one time thing like your whole lifestyle was about this violence and

David: 51:36

so, you know I believe in the second amendment. I believe in your right to bear arms you know, there's been cases where somebody want to shoot up the shopping center and somebody uh, uh, You Carry concealed will take down the shooter. And so I believe in the right to bear arms I don't believe the right to go shoot somebody or something like that because you want to go, you know act like a fool or something, but It's just, you know, like I said, these things that we talk about, we're not saying them because all of a sudden we lost our heart. We lost, uh, we're soft guys. I'm not a soft guy, you know, but, you know, some things, like I said, you know, I see the moon, it touches me a certain kind of way. That don't make me soft. That makes me a human being. But, uh, I just, you know, I just wish that, uh, other people would have, uh, You know, more rational heads and their thinking, you know, and realize, you know, you're, you're, you're wasting your life with this fighting your own brothers. Yeah.

Jimmy: 52:32

Yeah. And to the point that he's talking about that, you know, NRA, they make, there's like a billion dollar a year industry with firearms. I agree that these, um, extended clips, these switches, et cetera, the accessibility of these, um, uh, short assault rifles are making it for a really, really, uh, bad mix where individuals getting their hands on it. And, you know, I, there has to be some type of. Control on that because it's just getting crazier and crazier because it's so easy to get, you know You see it all the time. So, you know, um, we again had to Have our lawmakers or something something got to be done to you know Have it work because they they say now if you have uh, these extended clips, they're going to give you more time But, you know, study show just by you saying who, who's going to say, well, how much time am I going to have for an extended clip? Oh, they're going to give me 10 more years for that. Nobody's thinking that that I'm not going to do it. Now I'm going to get 10 extra years. Hell no. If I can get this, I'm going to get it. I'm going to use it. You

David: 53:29

know, you don't know any of these things until you've been to the system. And then you realize, you know, you're selling these drugs. close to a thousand yards within the school yard. That's an extra charge. You're you're you have a bulletproof vest. That's a you're a convicted felon. That's a that's an extra charge. All these extra charges they pile up on you and then you don't know these things at the time you you have no concern about. Oh, they can slap another 10 years because you think you're not going to get arrested. You think you're going to you probably get away with a couple of things, but sooner or later, the laws of the law. average is going to catch up to you. But you know, one of the things we talk about Omar, you know, like how can you divert somebody from taking this path, this path? I think that, I think that church is a great thing. You know, church is a great, every time I go to church and I don't go as often as I could, you know, some days I'm working that day or whatever. Um, it's like, uh, to me, it's you, it was put in terms of, you have a gas tank. And you go to, you go to church and it's putting fuel for your soul. This is a fuel for your soul. You leave church. Nobody leaves church in an angry mood. Nobody leaves church in a negative, hater mood. Everybody that leaves the church, if it's a good church, it's uplifting church, you're going to go, you're going to feel uplifted and you're going to feel You're gonna feel like, you know, in a better frame of mind. So, you know, church would be a good thing too.

Omar: 54:48

Yeah I think that's why um, it's funny you bring that because I was thinking earlier about like I always in my podcast with a scripture Right, it's Matthew 4 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light and upon those who sat in the region and the shadow of death Light has dawned and then the reason that that a scripture would I go like when I was praying when I was starting this podcast I wanted it to be more than just me I want to God in it and so I was praying in that scripture when I read that scripture It reminded me of the city of chicago Like the people that are sitting in darkness like spiritual darkness and sin whether it be Stealing all this is robbing and killing and I it just like um, I was reading an article. I believe that chicago was like the I forget the title like the Murder capital of the united states. I forget how many years in a row And then that's part of that scripture where, uh, it says those that sat in the region, the region in the shadow of death. So that's like what Chicago unfortunately is known for, for the region of shadow on death. And then, uh, light has dawned. And the scripture that came to mind also is when jesus said I am the light of the world He who follows me shall walk in the light and I walk in darkness So I believe spiritually that that's the reason I do this too to share testimonies that point people to him So i'm i'm glad you brought that up. Definitely. I I would agree. That's a way to reach it and for me I found that that's a way to break these, uh, uh, generational, uh strongholds And curses because now I look at my children Like uh for me, I was fortunate enough that that when god came into my life Uh, my girlfriend at the time was pregnant with my daughter So I only had my my son angel, which is my wife's son And I when I got with her, he was one year old So he got to see that that bad side or that, you know, I would say that dark side of me And when god changed my life around My daughter and my son that followed seemed to transform and uh, the man that was born of God's spirit. So I would say, well, what I've seen is that God could could change a man from the inside out. Uh, Dr. Lewis Cole said that, uh, many a man can change his way, but only God can change his nature. So for me, I believe it's important to start here in the inside to change the heart. I believe it is in Ezekiel where it says he will take that heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I believe that a lot of men out there have that heart of stone that they're, they're hardened because the, unfortunately the city makes you like this, the heart and you, it's almost like you got to harden yourself to survive, you know, out there, but God could definitely turn that heart around and use it for good. You know, if we allow him to. So

David: 57:25

God, it's certainly changes my life. One of the great things I do, there's a lady across the street of Yaha and I see her gardening and, uh, gardening. You know, I was, uh, I was, uh, unknowledgeable as far as how much water should I, uh, feed my plants. And so she came, the Mexican lady, old lady, we had a nice conversation, I had a great time with her. She was educating me on all the things that I don't know about how to, how to, how much water to put and, and how many times to, uh, water my plants and stuff. And this is, uh, this is a great, uh, pleasure of mine. You know, stuff like that. And it's, uh, I think I, I, uh, attribute it all to, to God changing things in my life, my mentality. Because once upon a time, I don't even care about it. I don't even care about the flowers, you know? I get my flowers for my girl on Valentine's Day, that's it. But, uh, now, to see them bloom, and see, see the fruits of my labor. You know, uh, uh, caring for this, uh, I'm going to be doing a beautiful plant and seeing it blossom and bloom. I really, I really find that very enjoyable for me.

Omar: 58:25

It's funny you bring that up because we were walking to the side of my house. You really get the plans that what is that? What kind of plan is that? You asked me the day. I don't even know what that is, man. But uh you're right. It's

David: 58:34

uh

Omar: 58:35

you know what uh for me uh gardening is uh therapeutic man. I don't know if you've been doing some gardening. Oh yeah.

David: 58:41

I was doing. I was doing some gardening. I um it might sound weird but you know I had some weeds. I think those weeds have a a right to live too. Okay. Not just on my property, because you make you make, you're making the property not look good as good. But, uh, you know, so just, just planting things, you know. I, uh, I put some bird, uh, some grass seed out there and you know, I love birds too. The birds are eating the grass seeds. Come on man. I feeding you enough birds seed to clean my Leave my grass alone. Leave my grass seed alone. But it's kind of similar, but you know, all these things are blessings. Before I came to prison, I wouldn't even think about things like that. And, you know, I remember when we were in the neighborhood, my cousin and I, there was a guy, he served some time in prison, and when he came out, you know, he happened to be passing by us. And, um, we're like, we invite him, come on, come on. Come, come hang out with us. You know, we were drinking some booms farm and he was like, uh, When he looked at us like we were lepers like, oh no, I said, I said, I told a couple of guys, man, the guy, the guy got soft prison made him a soft guy. You don't even want to come around us. That's what I was thinking. But now that I know this man was on parole, his violent, he would have violated his pro right there and right then and there. So if you come to jail, you're You come to prison, you're gonna realize it's not a fun time. You know you're gonna be locked up when you could be, ain't in bed with a girl. But instead, you'll be in prison and locked in the cell instead of enjoying. The outside, you know,

Omar: 1:00:06

yeah, you know what you bring up a good point about that because uh, Like I think like when somebody shows, you know, like in the neighborhood love, you know You would love love right love this or love that and uh They they look at you like you mentioned. Oh, this guy got soft. This guy is weak And a lot of a lot of times these guys they want to turn their life around, you know, they don't want to marry take care of their children and we look at them as weak and a lot of unfortunately a lot of times their own guys come come at them instead of supporting that change, you know, so I think that's another area that needs to change like the mentality man like it's to me it was sad to see that guys that let's say the opposition didn't take them out and they made it let's say into their 40s or even close to 50. And then they want to walk away and now your own guys want to get you. And then to me, when I look back on it, man, that's, that's sad, man. Like that, that's, that, that's what it comes to at the end. I saw a guy

David: 1:00:59

like that. I saw some young guys that misinterpreted the guy. This guy wanted to live a different sort of life and they thought that he was a pushover. And I, and I actually told one guy, man, that too, that's right there, man. He says, Oh no, uh, it's like the, the toughest, um, somebody like Bruce Lee, you know, uh, he can go in a bar. They want to challenge him because they say you're the toughest guy. I'm going to take tough guy. And then they find out that he was no joke or the best gunslinger, you know, this gunslinger didn't have to brag. He didn't have to show that he was the fastest draw in the old days because he knew it, he was securing it, you know? And so, you know, the people could say, That if you say, you know, oh my man, you know, I forgive you bro for what you did. That's soft. No, that's not soft. You know, you know, that's not soft at all because of that strength, you know, that strength to sit to say, if you're worthy of the forgiveness, then I extend that to you. If, what do I say worthy, you know, uh, if you harm me and, and you still revel in that and you haven't changed your mentality and you wish me bad ill, I'm not forgiving you, you know, and you might call me a sinner for not forgiving you. I'm just being an honest person, you know, but if you are sincere, I'm talking about sincerity. If you're a sincere person and, and you, and, and you're worthy of that, I'm going to give that to you. You know?

Jimmy: 1:02:13

Gotcha. Oh, no, I mean, you hit, you all are hitting really good points as far as change to change happens from within. It's no different than a dope fein, someone that's addicted to some type of substance. They have to be willing to do it. They can go to all of the rehab centers in the world, but unless they take that step to change themselves or the way, you know, they're living, it's not going to, it's not going to work. You know, it's when they accept that, you know, that they have a problem and they want to change, then it happens. You know, it's the same thing with any lifestyle. If I'm living the gang lifestyle, drug lifestyle, whatever it may be, unless you're willing to change, it's not going to happen. And I do think that the church plays a pivotal role. And getting people to come back and realize that they can change and it's sad that, you know, people look at people in prison when they want to become what they call, quote, unquote, a born again Christian or take on, you know, accepting God as their Lord and Savior. You know, it's it's they looked at a certain way, you know, like all he gave up, you know, he's weak He's this, you know, and these are just like I said the same thing how we look at somebody Oh, he's a schoolboy, you know, oh, he's a square. He's a lame. He's a this. He's a that You know when really those are the things that we should be striving. Yeah You know, it somehow got twisted and we, we look at things in a backwards sort of way. So you know, I just hope that, you know, people will come back to the church. I think that, um, you know, it's moving slightly in that way. I see like the Victory Outreach in Pilsen, there's another, uh, church, uh, I'm, I can't remember their name. They now are establishing themselves in, uh, In, uh, South Lawndale, so I'm, you know, you see the back of the yards, they have that things going on with the precious blood ministries. So there is that hope that you see, you know, these churches or people that are doing that work emerging in these communities. It's just hopefully that they can touch these people, that they could change.

David: 1:04:07

I found it good. I find a very nice place, Align Ministries, the logo's on my hat. Okay. And what is that in the middle? Is that like a flame? It's a light. It's a symbol for the church. Okay. And, uh, you know, when I go there, I feel, I always feel uplifted and everything like that. And so it's just, it's, it's for my own personal, it's for my own personal growth. Yeah. There, there it is. Like, like I said, you can't misinterpret somebody who wants to do good as being soft. He's a wash. He's a washed up guy. He's a has been. What has he done lately? Or anything like that, because then you'll find something different the hard way. And then that's better just avoid all of that stuff. And you know, live your life, stay in your lane, let that guy stay in his lane, and then you won't have problems. Nobody will have problems. You have, you know, problems free.

Omar: 1:04:54

Yeah, I know earlier you brought up the warrior, the warrior in us, and I was reading a book, Craig Groeschel was a pastor, and he was talking about in Genesis where it says that we were created in the image of God. Uh, as, as men, you know, men, men, he created male and female in the image of God. And then in Exodus 3 15, he says that the Lord is a warrior and the Lord is his name. So then he, he, he tied them together. He said, uh, if, if we're created in his image and he's a warrior, there's part in us already that desires to fight. And he was talking about, man, he said, uh, a warrior without a cause to fight for, we'll fight against anything. And then, uh, there was a scripture where he was talking about like, uh, the men were commanded, uh, all right, fight, fight for your wives, fight for your children, fight for your families. And unfortunately, when there's nobody there to teach us that that's another way to fight. So a lot of times, let's say like coming to church, you think, Oh, you gotta be soft or weak now. No, you, you come to God. He, he wants you to keep that same energy, but now you're fighting for, For a right cause or a godly cause now you're fighting for your marriage You're fighting not to go through divorce that were say like the previous generations There was none but divorce and fidelity and all these things now You're trying to model for your children that it is possible man to to live a peaceful life To raise your children, right and it's setting like a new Starting like a new cycle, I guess, in the family. So if

David: 1:06:25

you think about, think of a community leaders, wild calm, community heroes, the ladies that, uh, uh, The ladies that went on this hunger strike to build the little village high school. They went on a hunger strike for weeks. I've been on hunger strikes in prison. When, when, when, when did this happen?

Omar: 1:06:40

I remember hearing about that. Like, yes,

David: 1:06:42

the, the,

Omar: 1:06:43

the

David: 1:06:43

year that the little village high school, I was in prison. That was some years ago though, right? That was a while back with a couple of decades ago. It wasn't that long ago. They didn't have that high school and that neighborhood. So if you're from that neighborhood and they want to send you If you're from that part of, uh, 2068, I want to send you Farragut High School, and if you're from just coming from there, you might have problems or whatever, or whatever other high school. So these ladies demanded from the politicians who are supposed to be serving the community, and they went on this hunger strike. I know a hunger strike is not easy. I've been on hunger strikes in prison. They denied me my rights. And uh. You know, everybody likes to eat, you know, and I was only, I was only drinking water. I wouldn't even drink coffee or anything like that. And I went on the hunger strikes. Nothing, nothing to play with these hunger strikes. And these ladies went, and to me, why are there, why are there images in the neighborhood? Don't put the gang, uh, graffiti on there. Put that ladies, get the artists, there's so many of them. Put those ladies on there. They're all personal. They're my personal heroes. Yeah. The ones who made it possible to have this high school there. And, um. You know, honor them. Those are the ones they say, Oh, he's a legend in Little Village or she's a legend of his. Now, legend for what? Let that person be the, the, the, the, the legend that we look up to. Someone who did something positive for that community.

Omar: 1:07:56

So we got to start, start uplifting others or like viewing, I guess, having a different role model in a sense, I guess. Yeah,

David: 1:08:03

different people we revert. Why would you reverse somebody who You know, like when I was out of state, uh, every time I saw the news, 4th of July, Oh, Chicago had a record number of shootings. And these guys in the prison, man, you from Chicago, are you from the area? Yeah, I'm from the area. And I'm glorifying this, this activity. And I'm thinking, yeah, you glorify this activity. You don't got to live there. You know, if you live in that neighborhood and some bullets are coming through the wall and they're shooting your grandchild or something like that, then you're not going to think this, it's such a good thing,

Omar: 1:08:31

you know,

David: 1:08:32

affects you personally, you're not going to think it's such a good thing.

Omar: 1:08:34

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Jimmy: 1:08:36

That's true. Uh, yeah, I mean, like I said, uh, this month is going to be the 16th of September. We've seen what happened on the Cinco de Mayo. I would just hope that we don't see a, um, a repeat of that, you know, that people can celebrate, uh, you know, Mexican Independence Day, Mexican pride, you know, and get out there and enjoy it. You know, because I remember me and him, it used to be fun, even though the cops would harass us sometimes, but the times that we could enjoy it, you know, it was a time that we, you know, sit there and enjoy the parade, man, you know, see everyone coming down there, the different people, you know, doing whatever on their floats, you know, the music, it was just, you know, the food, et cetera, you know? And so I hope that that doesn't happen on the 16th of September, that people will actually, you know, come together and not let that happen. Um, Transcribed You know, like you said, the church, I go to the New Covenant Church on the north side in Humboldt Park, uh, near Division and Kedzie. Um, there's a lot of system impacted people, and I go there, and, you know, you do walk away feeling good, you know? Uh, every time I go there, I don't go all, Every week because you know, sometimes I'm I'm working unfortunately, but um, yeah I mean, uh, I think that you know people need to have that in their life If they really expect to find some peace and you know getting back to you know Centering themselves and you know finding a purpose.

David: 1:09:57

Yeah, I'm when I speak about church, you don't like to me One of the things that I dislike very much is a hypocrite. So I'm not gonna be a I'm not going to be preaching to you and then I talk to talk, but I don't walk the walk and I'm not saying I'm doing anything wrong or anything like that, but, um, I'm not asking anybody to look at me as being an example of anything. I'm speaking about what's good for you. And I'm telling you what's good for you. You go. If you go to a church, the right church, some church might be born to you. You might not, uh, it might not. Affect you at all. But if you find the right, the mix of the church right there, you're gonna, you're gonna be uplifted. So you, you know, you consider what, who, who, who is this benefiting? It's benefiting you. And it's by benefiting you, it's going to be benefit others, because you're gonna be in a good frame of mind, and you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna pass that positivity onto the next person, you know? And that's it. And that's a good thing. You know,

Omar: 1:10:50

I tell

David: 1:10:50

you, let's go work out in the gym. That's a good thing. That's a positive thing. You know, are these things that are good for you, for, for your physical physicality and also good for your soul?

Omar: 1:11:00

Oh yeah. It's all around. That's what I was doing. Uh, I used to do the workout in the world. I think I don't know if I share with you guys. But we used to work out for an hour and then get into the Bible study. So I was looking at it like a physical and spiritual edification, you know, like all around. And

David: 1:11:14

then you have to do something for your wife or your girlfriend, do something romantic and do take on a date night or do something good for that. And then you got your basis cup, do something for your children.

Omar: 1:11:24

That's actually number one, man. You know, that is one. I forgot to mention that, you know.

David: 1:11:29

Yeah, no, that's good. That's a good thing though.

Omar: 1:11:31

No, yeah, you know, I know we've been touching some heavy topics, you know, some serious stuff, but I want to maybe change it up a little bit. What are some things that you guys are looking forward to do? Like maybe some, um, man, what's the word like a bucket list now that you guys got this freedom? I know it was 42 years. Do you have a list of man, you know, maybe some fun activities or some, some things that you want to knock out?

David: 1:11:54

So now, okay. Uh, been out since December. There's some things that I have not been to the beach. I have not been, I'm not even swam yet. You know, life has came to me and you know, I got, I got, um, I got really focused on my home. That's, that's like my focus. You know, my focus wasn't, uh, some getting some jewelry or some other things like that. My, my focus was like, uh, you know, I want a leather recliner couch. I want an island in my kitchen. You know, I want, I want some things. I want a soft pillow. I want a new bedroom set for my guest bedroom. And, and, you know. Um, I want to make my lawn very lush and, and, and there's, there's, there's my focus, but in the, in the, in the process of all these things, some things have passed me by, but it's not too late because thank God, you know, thanks to the Lord, you know, I'm, I'm healthy and I'll get to get around to doing those things. I told you I took one bath so far. It was a marvelous thing. You know, I don't know if most people just take a shower, bath and it was like, Oh my God. I was like, did you soak in there for a while? I almost got turned off. Grape, you know, like turn to a grape green. Got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll prove. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. But then also have me a glass of wine too, so that helped it a little bit while I was, while I was laying in that, in the bathtub. But, uh, you know, we'll get around to those things. Yeah, I, I know, I, I know I will, you know.

Omar: 1:13:15

Okay. But that, that's, I know you mentioned the beaches, that one you want to do, like experience,

David: 1:13:19

maybe some traveling, you know, maybe some

Omar: 1:13:20

traveling. Any places in particular that man that, that, I don't know, that you just, man, I want to check it out one day.

David: 1:13:26

You know, like I would say probably Italy. Mm-Hmm. You know, I read some books on a, a tra, a memoir of somebody that went to Italy and they went to some nice, really nice places. Good food. I like Italian food a lot. And so maybe, maybe some part of Italy I I would like to go to. Gotcha.

Omar: 1:13:40

Now, you know, le le let me ask you about that, like a memoir, like in there, like, did, did you find, let's say reading that did, even though you were there where you were at. Did it help your mind like escape while you're reading it, like maybe visualizing some of the stuff you're reading or

David: 1:13:53

when I was in, uh, when I was in Tam's prison, you know, like I went to seven and a half years without TV, you know, um, after a year of, uh, no write ups, you're eligible for TV. And, uh, at that time in Tam's prison, uh, prison cell, they had a concrete shelf. And at that time they sold the bubble TVs. So a bubble TV. And the radio would not fit on there. So you had a choice. You want your TV or you want your radio? I chose my radio. And the reason why I chose my radio, because at nighttime, this was a late night show, the BBC and the British Broadcast Company Corporation would have the correspondence all throughout the world. And I will close my eyes and I will listen to them say, Uh, we're now in Antarctica and you can hear the wind blowing. They had the acoustics of the microphone, you can hear the wind blowing, and I was, and I was just visualizing myself, how is it that I could actually feel cold? And then next thing you know, the next storyline, the next segment of the story, they were in Afghanistan. Again, I closed my eyes and they'll say, we're walking up the Canada, in the Canada Harp, and you can hear the rocks tumbling down. And that was my escape. That was my way from away from the prison. And I was be so focused on that. When they would have the mentally ill guy, there's always a mentally ill guy in a chair banging all night. Boom. Cause he wanted attention. He was mentally ill. He was mentally disturbed. And I wasn't even able to close him out cause I would focus so much on the, on these stories, you know? And that was, that was my escape at that time. You know? And sometimes now, like, I marvel at how far, you know, I put a Facebook post when I was driving on the expressway. And I was like, a few months ago, I was in a prison cell. And, you know, in Cook County Jail, you know, we had, uh, certain times we could be on the tier and then we'd have to go lock up. And it's always seemed like, you know, like, if we were put on CNN, I wanted to watch what was happening in the political world, and then they'd say, lock up. Man, and sometimes they would, the officers wanted to lock you up early. They will cheat you out of five minutes. And five minutes meant a lot because you could see that story within five minutes, but they're locking you up. And I, and sometimes we'll have to go tussle with them, you know, Hey, listen, man. I ain't going nowhere to give me my whole time. You know, I'm not trying to be difficult with you, but I'm going to serve my rights of what I have. This is what I was afforded to me. And I'm, and, and just imagine that you're getting stressed out. Your world is becoming like, it's so stressful because you're fighting for five minutes to watch that story. That's going to come on within five minutes, but they want to lock you up. And now we have this freedom. And one thing that, um, I'm very appreciative is that I haven't, I haven't lost. Uh, my sense of gratitude for things, my appreciation, things, the magnitude of things. I still look at a flower and marvel at its beauty. And I don't think I will ever lose that because I want a long time without seeing one. And now that I see them, they're just like blessings. I still think people might think I'm crazy or something. I see the tree swaying. I really believe that's God telling me that tree saying hi to me. I say hello to it back. If you see me one day, you see me waving. I'm lost in my mind. I'm going crazy. I'm just appreciating the nature.

Omar: 1:16:56

No, no. And, uh, hugging the trees. I believe you mentioned you had three. Yeah. Yeah. Good thing right there. I don't know. What, what, what about you, uh, Jimmy, any, like a list, like a bucket list or things you want to do, I haven't been in a bath yet

Jimmy: 1:17:10

and I haven't swam yet. Those are things, I mean, the summer came and went so quick. Uh, I couldn't believe it, but, um, Yeah, I mean, just like him, I want to go to like the south of France, south of Europe, south Italy, uh, maybe Greece, you know, other places like that. Somewhere warm, some, you know, that's why I say it's south. Um. But yeah, I want to do things like, uh, I want a parachute. I want a parachute. No way, yeah. I remember there was a ride they used to have, uh, those that remember, uh, uh, uh, uh, um, well, I might be taking it way, way, way back, but, uh, we used to have an amusement park over there on Grand Avenue, you know, and, um, I remember they had this parachute ride and you could only be a certain, uh, age to get on there and I told, I lied, they let me on there anyway. But, uh, yeah, I really enjoyed that. And we, David and I went to Acapulco as kids, you know, and we got on this thing and I just wanted to go on this para kiting where the boat takes you up, you know, and it's just that, that, how could I say it, this, uh, I found it really exhilarating and liberating to be up there, like, floating on the water. Oh, so you actually did it at a young age when Yeah. It was paraki that they pull you and then you come up. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, you're the earth. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanna have that feeling again, but out of a plane, I wanna do it out of a plane, you know? Jump out of a plane, out a pair. That's one of the things you talked about, bug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bug. That's one of the things I

David: 1:18:26

wanna do. You know, it's interesting for me when I talk to other guys who've been locked up a long time and I never ridicule or think that's weird. Nothing worked for me. None of those things, the desires they want to do. If one person tells me my cousin wants to jump out of the airplane, God bless him, let him jump out of the airplane. Not for me. You know, I'll probably want to go, I'll probably want to, uh, probably volunteer to go build, uh, to, uh, Plant some trees with somebody in a something like that. That's that's like a I would never had that that desire or pleasure Before prison, but somehow knowing nature just really really hasn't like on me like that there, you know So I don't I don't care about getting a Running a big boat or yacht and going in Bermuda or something like the Bahamas or whatever I would rather I would rather do something more simple. That's that's my personal. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if that's your thing, right? Hey, man, listen, man more power to you, bro I understand that that's that's what you dreamed of you were in prison and you dreamed about these things and And now they come to fruition. And so I think thank God for you, you know,

Omar: 1:19:35

yeah Yeah, definitely. I mean after that much time I think man You guys deserve to whatever whatever that looks like man to at least experience it You don't talk

Jimmy: 1:19:43

about like the flowers you find gardening therapeutic and it is nature is therapeutic I mean, that's a that's a fact, you know Definitely my therapist tells me all the time. You need to immerse yourself in nature more go for a long hike You know simple thing I go up at the beachfront and you know, there's areas where you have, you know Trees and whatnot. I'm not there like to watch the boats and all that stuff But to be the in that moment see the nature they got a bird sanctuary in certain spots, you know I don't like the geese. I'm not particularly fond of geese, but they have a purpose too, you know Uh, because they crap everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know geese are geese people feed them They tell you don't feed the geese people are feeding them all the time, you know, I love the ducks, you know So it's it's those like you said those simple things Are uh, they do make you feel

David: 1:20:26

human my girl My girl gets a big kick out of me because every time I go step into the backyard to feed the birds The birds scatter And I always just talk to the birds. Hey, don't be scared of me. Don't you know that I love you? I will never harm you. I will never in my life hurt these birds. I love you. Well, who's feeding you all the time? Me. So you don't have to scatter. And the first thing I say to them when I step out in the backyard, Don't be scared. Don't be scared. And my girl's laughing at me. Hey, she's talking to the birds again, huh? Yeah, I'm trying to get them to understand. I'm not trying to harm them. I'm trying to

Omar: 1:20:54

help them. That's wonderful. I think, man, I know you, I still remember, uh, a part of your story where you said you took off, you know, you had been on concrete. I forget how many years, so many years, 17, and then you took off your shoes and your socks and you were just walking in the grass and you're like, man, people probably think I'm crazy, but 17 years of concrete to just to feel the dirt and the grass under your feet, the

David: 1:21:17

soil like, uh, yeah, because there's guys in prison, they bug up. You know, we can, we say they're bugging up, they're going crazy, lose their mind kind of way. And I used to think those guys were soft. I say, you know what, you can't handle the pressure. You're a soft, you know, and I want to say profanity, you know, soft dude, you know, but, uh, then I know everybody has their own unique experiences, what they, uh, what they went through and, uh, who might've judged them if they had that effect on them. Some guys are cut off for something. Some guys are not cut off for some things. And, uh, I was 17 years without feeling the earth without feeling the soil. And so when I went out to the yard, when they finally let me out. I was like shocked. I felt almost like I made parole. I was out there and I took my shoes off, took my socks, and I was walking on the grass and I seen a dandelion. It was a dandelion. I thought it was a daisy, but it actually was a dandelion. I picked the dandelion. I was looking at the dandelion, and then I turned around and there was like six or seven guys looking at me. And I first started to explain to them. You know, hey man, and I said to myself, I don't explain nothing to none of these guys. They go, I don't know, nobody know explanation, nothing. I do what I want to do, and if I want to smother that land, that's what I'm going to do. And, but, um, you know, had this effect on me that, uh, it was just a, such a great creation, you know? Yeah.

Omar: 1:22:24

Hey, you know what I want to bring up? Like, uh, I don't know when people listen to your story, well, one of the, the, I say most common comments that I will get is a lot of people were amazed how you were able to maintain your sanity, I guess, and how well. Like you express yourself, communicate it, and I just wanted to share that like, uh, after 42 years, that, that, that's one of the things that a lot of the people noticed. And uh, what would you attribute that

David: 1:22:50

to? Like, Well, for me, my personal, my, in my life, before I came to prison, it wasn't strange for me, uh, the police to come raid my house all the time. You know, like, they would, uh, they would raid my house, like, they would, uh, you know, they would allege my father was, uh, you know, to something. Who knows what they were alleged to do, you know. Charges, there's empty charges and they'll come raid the house. So like they raid my cell in the prison It's just it's just a continuation of what they did They raided my house and when I was on the outside and now they're raiding myself. It's just a continuation Thank god now I don't have those issues because i'm not doing anything where they could be Misconstrued that I was involved in something to give him the a basis to come and knock down my, my doors or something like they did all my life. That's what they did all my life. And now that I have this piece where I don't have to worry about those things, it's just such a, it's a, it's a big relief. But as far as, uh, how I was able to maintain my sanity or something, there was just a formula that worked for me. And that was like I said, in the other podcast, I went to sleep at the same time. I woke up at the same time. I had a very, uh, Strict structure, a routine that I will stick to, you know, I will exercise, I always exercise, you know, you know, and come out here and I see some guys are younger than me that look older than me and they didn't take care of their bodies. And so I did take care of him. He took care of his body. He still take care of his body now. And so, you know, like, um. You know, praying, praying was a big thing, getting fresh air. When Tams, you're in an environment that's like on an airplane. You're, you're breathing in the same air and you know, they have all these airborne viruses and pathogens coming through there and we will, I will go outside and I always said it was like a blackboard. Uh, a school blackboard. You had all this writing on there and it's all the clutter of these thoughts in your mind. And when I went outside, it was like somebody took an eraser and erasing the blackboard is now clean. Now my, my, my brain is cleansed and I'm, I'm able to relax a little bit. And that was a simple, uh, oxygen to my brain, just getting simple oxygen to my brain. So those are, those are strict. Uh, routine that I was in, I noticed that that was, um, the recipe for success. And the recipe was for failure was doing opposite things, you know, staying up all night and all this stuff here and not exercising and, uh, you know, like, uh, your energy, you're going to get it off one way, you're going to get off another way. And if you get it off the right way, do a bunch of pushups, crunches, all these things. It's better than, uh, pacing back and forth going nuts, like a, like a bull in a, in a And the China store, you know, ready to knock some stuff down. Better go get that exercise on. We'll do pull ups. You know, some of my friends, you know, we, we improvise ways to, to, we didn't have weights. We didn't have, uh, uh, machines. So we will have to work with what we had, whatever we had, we'll make the, we'll improvise and do the best. And, and that kept us stable.

Omar: 1:25:40

Okay.

David: 1:25:41

But still, like Jimmy said, he's right. We are traumatized and it's nothing weak to say about that. You know, I told you the story when we went to the supermarket, yeah. And they wanted to check our, our, our bag. And you know, something triggered in me, like deeply, and I just felt like, okay, here we go again. You know, accusing us falsely, because that's what they were doing. You know, they weren't doing their job, like, just randomly. They stopped us. You know, and, uh, I was thinking like, here we go again, falsely accused, and, uh, for no, for no reason at all. And so, you know, these are, it's like, um, a soldier, you know, I have a friend that served in the military, and, uh, he was. Subjected to those IEDs, improvised explosive devices, these things they'll put on the road. And so now, when, you know, thank God for his wife being so patient with him, because if he goes down the road and there's some garbage on the road, he flashes back. It's a trigger to him that this might be a bomb, even though we're in the United States here. And we have these triggers, my cousin and I have triggers. My friends that serve a long time in prison have these certain triggers, you know. And, um, you know, like, uh, Uh, they say this guy's coming up for his post conviction. We want support to go in the courtroom. Would you please, uh, come and support this man? There's an innocent man like you were an innocent man and we want to show The court and the judge and the state's attorney that he is not a forgotten man. He has a support base and would you please come to court and you know, okay, I will, you know, I will do that, but I don't want to do that because the last thing I want to see is a judge. I have bad experience with this judge. He had, you know, like the way he was ruling was, you know, I don't, I don't personally like that's him. Must be a stronger man than me to go before these judges again because I don't even want to see a judge anymore. You know?

Omar: 1:27:25

Yeah. Last thing I want to see is judge. Well, what about you, Jimmy? What would you attribute like maybe, I know on your podcast too, you mentioned how There are like lingering effects, you know, the trauma. Oh yeah,

Jimmy: 1:27:34

absolutely. Absolutely. You have these different effects. Like, uh, hearing like some people in the supermarkets, uh, they have walkie talkies to communicate. And sometimes you have that, uh, reverb come on there. And that reminds me of, you know, what the officers used to have when there was an incident going down. So there's a lot, a lot of things like that can trigger, can trigger me. Um, yeah, you have that residual effect of incarceration. But like he said, for me, um, I was always reading. He knows I always used to study even when I wasn't in school. I love to read, um, and I loved and, you know, praying, staying focused, um, you know, having a regiment was also that running, playing sports. I like to play basketball, handball, things like that, so, you know, if you, if people that didn't follow that type of lifestyle, you could see that, you know, they, like I said, they quickly aged or they passed, some of them are dead now, you know, and they're younger than us. They didn't, they got out and, you know, they just never took care of themselves and have a host of problems. But um, You know, I just think that, you know, a lot of people need to understand that, you know, even though you're out, um, you know, it's that stigma, you know, even those that serve time, not paroled because there's no real parole, but you know, they're out. It's that permanent punishment. You got that if that that black box that you check where you ever convicted of a felony or this You know and you don't fill it out. They're gonna find out you know, so There's it precludes them from getting you know, good good employment, etc. I think both of us are fortunate We're working and whatnot. But um, yeah, I mean, um, if you don't have the wherewithal within yourself You're not gonna make it in there it'll break you it will break you and I've seen it happen a lot of times and um, You Yeah, it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's just the fact of the system.

David: 1:29:15

We're, we're forever, he and I and others that served time in prison for a crime we didn't that do, we're still, we're still labeled a certain kind of way. I remember when I was in Thames, there was a guy that was convicted of a rape and, uh, you know, uh, everybody, they want to ostracize this guy because they say he's a rapist. Nobody likes a rapist. And then the DNA evidence proved he was not the rapist. Scientific proof. He is not the guy, you know, and then, you know, there still was a lot of people that said, man, I don't care what that DNA said. That dude is a creep. He did it, you know, and like the same thing with us. If I, you know, if I was to tell my neighbors don't know anything about me, unless you can see this pocket and who knows, I'm gonna blur your face. So, but like you say, Yeah, at the time, but you know what? We were, we were, we were falsely accused, we were wrongly in prison and they'll say, say, well, you know, they, you know, it was a technicality. They didn't read your rights. No, none of that. We were actually innocent men and we were wrongly convicted and the state took decades of our lives and they stole our youth and everything else, you know, and, but, um, some people still, still think, uh, yeah. Well, uh, yes, you, you did it, you know? So this is like, I'm not trying to convince anybody, anything, your mind made up. You made, you make your mind up. That's what it is. You're stuck on that. And, uh, I remember one time I saw a TV show where this, where this lady, uh, the police officers wanted to convict this guy and they had mugshots and on the table. And they said, look at these mugshots. Look at them. They're pushing this one particular and her mind triggered. That's the guy and it turns out wasn't the guy. And so then when, um, this guy did all his time in prison and then they found out the guy who fit that, the MO, the guy who's, the DNA was proven was him. They, that lady's still in her mind said, no, no, I don't care what any of that says. He's the guy. And, uh, so, so people have these, These, these opinions and they're setting their opinions and they think the way they think and then that's just how they are. That's just what it is. And we're, we're, we're, we're like, uh, not like a scarlet letter back in the day. Put that scarlet on you. But we do, we have this albatross around her neck or something like that. And, you know, it's just something we have to, um, is what this, this, the, the wrongful, uh, conviction, right?

Jimmy: 1:31:32

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, you know, that we carry a stigma as well, even though that we are exonerated people may say, okay, they had to have something to do with it. They wouldn't be locked up all that time, you know, so I understand you're always going to have people that have those opinions, naysayers or whatever, you know, and I'm not here to convince them either. Unfortunately, you know, the career that I wanted I chose and I'm going to go into law school. God willing, I'm gonna. You know try to get some other people out for as long as I could do that work. Um, I'm gonna be in courtrooms Uh, yeah, it is strange going back in there. It's not fun. Just to hold treatment of somebody that's just going there to be a Supporter of somebody, you know, you got to get searched all these things that you know are attached to the carceral system You know pat you down like I came through I forgot I had a pen that had a metal clip on the top It was in my pocket. You know, they tell you under the pocket. So the thing goes off. You would have thought I had a gun, pull me to the side, pat me down. So you're like, man, uh, we were asked recently to go, uh, in fact, today to go to go support somebody. I wasn't able to go because I work and I was kind of glad, like, like, you know, even though, um, you know, that's going to be my career. It does, you know, again, bring these triggering things because, you know, it's the courtroom is what, you know, got us all. In this, you know, serving all these decades in the first place. So

David: 1:32:54

we face all these awkward situations. I went to the dentist and I was had some dental work done and and he was like, I was like, he said, well, how long it was it was a bruised tooth and I was boxing. I didn't have my mouthpiece in town bruised my tooth. And so like the doctor said, well, how long have you had that? So well, that's probably 30 years ago. He's like 30 years. Well, why don't your dentist do something about it? I said, well, you know, it's just, you know, It's just one of those things, and this guy was persistent, and he wouldn't let it go. And I didn't feel like explaining to him. I was in prison. You don't get to choose your dentist, and you don't get to say, I don't like that dentist, I don't like your dental work, I'm gonna pick another dentist. And so this guy was persistent in his questions. Well, why didn't you just change dentists? I said, well, you know, it wasn't that easy. Well, why wasn't it that easy? And you know, here I'm sitting in the chair. And I feel like tell man, Hey man, why don't you just quit the questions and just do your work and more about what I was doing, you know what I mean? But, you know, the same thing, like, um, when I went from a job, a job interview, they're like, uh, okay, we require your, uh, your, your tax returns from last year. Well, I don't have none. Well, you don't file no taxes? No, it's just, you know, and then you have to say, look, man, here's what it is. You know, I was locked up for a case we didn't do. I didn't do, my cousin, we didn't do. And so these years, these decades, these were not years, these were decades, were stolen away from us, and I didn't file any taxes because I was in prison. And so then, then, and all of a sudden, they're looking at you differently. They're looking at you like, well, Oh, man, can we be trust him in this company? Now your label something that you're not, you know, because, you know, the state, uh, wrongfully put this, put this charge on you, you know? And so these are awkward things that sometimes I have to first got, I even know about scanning, you know, what's the supermarket know nothing about scanning. And I didn't know you put your debit card and you had to press the pin number and enter and all that stuff. And, uh, it was frustrating for me. That my family would have to help me out with this and people would look at me like I was um, Like some kind of an imbecile, you know, yeah. Yeah, right, right What's wrong with this guy, you know what I mean? And but uh, this is uh, if you never had if you never had exposure to these things, how would you know? How would you possibly know this is the procedure for this and these are some things that i'm still i'm still learning, you know,

Omar: 1:35:02

right?

David: 1:35:03

For me it was

Jimmy: 1:35:03

going to get a car loan. Uh, I had no credit that like I had to get my brother in law to co sign But it, the guy was sort of like what he's talking about, but I said, well, why didn't you hit, you had back credit? You filed for bankruptcy? I said, no, no, no, no. And I don't feel the need that I have to explain every time, you know, why, why you have zero credit. Now I got a 720, 20 score, but back then I didn't have nothing, you know? So it's not an easy thing. Like I was, I was glad when he, he, he got the home, he got it, uh, his loan approved, you know, uh, he worked to get, uh, his, his credit score up, uh, fairly quickly. So that's a good thing, you know? But, you know, one step at a time, piece by piece, we're bringing as much as we can, you know, back into what society is, you know, expects, not expects of you, but these things that society has available to you, you know, and so now we're just, we're learning all that. We're learning as we go along. We're navigating it. Now, this is

David: 1:35:56

the, this is the first year. That, uh, as a homeowner, I'm going to have, uh, I have to go prepared for the kids. Candy. Give kids. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to Christmas decorating tree. This is the first tree that I will decorate it and decades and I'm looking forward to it. And, uh, I'm, I'm even open to having a, what's that? The ugly sweater you put on and just experience these, uh, great joys, you know? Right, right.

Omar: 1:36:24

Man. See, see, see, even like that, I know it's not like I say a bucket list with all these extraordinary things, but it is a list. Still things that you want to experience, things that you want to be a part of, you know, like I want to go to a bears game.

David: 1:36:35

I haven't went

Omar: 1:36:36

to, I've never been to a bird's game for real. I'll join you guys, but I've never been there for real. Yeah, man. Hey, quick, quick story. I'll share this. The day, um, not the day I got saved, but that Sunday, it was, it was a long story, but But my girlfriend was praying for me to go to church and man that that Sunday before the Tuesday, right where God touched me I was supposed to go to a bears game with my brother. He had a ticket for me and everything But man, I got so wasted the night before man. I got into a fight It was a crazy story and my brother calls me on sunday morning and like man, I can't make it. I was like done And that was the Sunday before I got saved that Tuesday. So I was supposed to go to Bears game, but it just didn't happen. We'll go

David: 1:37:24

to Bears game. So like I've been to outdoor musical venues, right? Music in the park or something like that. Rosemont, Bolingbroke, places like that. And, uh, man, I have the best time when I'm there. I was just like, and I look around and I say to myself, man, this is just a marvelous thing. Um, we've seen the fireworks before. Now they stopped the fireworks over the neighborhood. And this was just a great experience for me. And, uh, so, you know, being deprived of things and now having a, you know, You have it accessible to you. It's something that makes it more. It just, it amplifies it. You know, amplify your appreciation for this. And, and, and I really, I really find it a pleasure in that. I'm looking forward to these holidays. First Thanksgiving. You know, when I was a kid, we had our Thanksgiving together. Family having it together. And you know, like his sisters. They're such great people, but when we got locked up to a little girl, so I didn't know them as a person, even my sister, I didn't know her. She was a little girl, and I think she's just a wonderful person, and thank God that, you know, we have this close relationship now, and, um, it's just, these are just blessings, you know, just, this just didn't happen to us. These are God's blessings to us now, and that's how I look at it, you know,

Omar: 1:38:29

right? That's awesome, man. I pray you guys get to enjoy that. Thanksgiving man, uh, as a speaker of Thanksgiving, man, what's something you want on the menu that maybe that, that, you know, that you haven't tasted it maybe in a while that you want to,

Jimmy: 1:38:40

well, I want to show just a real quick story. There was one Thanksgiving when we were kids. They had a dog, right? His name was smart. This dog came home. We don't know how he got it. He came home with a whole cooked turkey. I'm not talking about little people. I'm not lying. It's a true story. This dog came to the back porch with a whole turkey and we were just like amazed at the fact. We didn't know. He had to steal it from somewhere. I don't know how he got it. He was a, while we He was a dog that was able like to open up fences and things like that. Yeah. He was, he was a good dog. So it was, it was, it was, I remember that Thanksgiving was just crazy. You know,

David: 1:39:15

we didn't think at the time he took some of his turkey, fully cooked. We're living on 25th and Spalding. That's where I grew up on 25th and Spalding. And, um, this, uh, they had the animal control van will come around. At first, that dog wasn't ours. It was a street dog. And that dog became our dog because that dog will go on our porch. And when that blue van went by, he'll sit down. Like, I live here. As soon as that van went by, he would go run. No way. Check this dog out. Look, this dog knew. And so then we start feeding dog. You know what, dog? You, you are our dog. And now we call that dog Smart. And that was the name of our, our pet. And he's right. He came for Thanksgiving. He came with fully, fully cooked turkey and wow. It's Tom. So smart. He brought the turkey home to us. But I look forward

Jimmy: 1:39:58

to, you know, traditional turkey meal. But one of the things that my sisters are going to do is that, uh, they're going to make mole with the leftover turkey. So I look, and I like, I remember the leftover turkey, like making a sandwich, you know, put a miracle whip on it or whatever, you know? So the next day turkeys, you know, even better. So I look forward to not only the meal, but the next day meal. Leftovers. Leftover meal. That's

David: 1:40:18

so interesting that, uh, Now that, you know, you asked me this question, I never even, I never even, I never even thought like I'm gonna eat this. Stuffing or whatever I'm gonna eat. I was more uh focused on the family dynamic being with my family and enjoying this day You know, um, we just went to my cousin my cousin miguel. We had a great time. He's a great fantastic guy We love this guy. We went to his house and I was talking to him about the plants he had on his wall And uh, you know, he's just a great music teacher and uh, we really enjoy his company and these things are more important to me Than um the food that was provided there or whatever, you know, uh Just being with my family. That's what matters to me.

Omar: 1:40:58

Yeah. You, you know. But it was funny that, that food brings the family together though, right? It's like, I don't know, like, uh, the, the attraction, like, and even like in the, in the old days, in the, in the Old Testament, they used to like, food was a way to, to conversate. That's great. Bread. Yeah. Break bread, breaking bread. But it was what happened around the table. So I guess that that's the importance of it. You know, it's not the table itself, but it's. What draws them there and then it's the conversation. It's the gathering, the spending time with family, you know, getting to reconnect. We had a lot of

David: 1:41:27

people that had preconceptions of me, you know, and uh, they sat down and then we shown them. You know, the person I am and they stand, uh, it's something different from what they, what the ideas they had, what they

Omar: 1:41:39

were maybe expecting to

David: 1:41:40

expecting. Yeah. And I don't blame them for expecting that, you know, uh, you know, reputation, character, whatever, whatever they thought, wherever, uh, their beliefs came from, whatever fed them those beliefs. Uh, if you see, yeah. Uh, some news media is about at me at one time, it probably would not be something, uh, you know, that I would be proud of, but it'd be something that, uh, they would give them those ideas or something like that, but now that they say, you know, like, um, I would, I would, I would enjoy having conversations over things that I never would have had a converse about before, you know, and, uh, we're talking about plants, but, you know, I have a friend and if you look at this guy, my friend John, he's, he's like a, he look like a street guy, you know, he's a big dude, he got tattoos and everything and then, uh, You know, at first I thought he was putting me on because he was like, uh, I see that you had a perennial, uh, flower there. I said, well, you know, that's a perennial flower. How do you know that? He's like, man, I, if you want, one day I could, I could take you to my home and I could show you. We went to his home. It was like a beautiful garden. He has, like, he planted this shaded perennial because this is a perennial that can grow in shade. And so this is what we're going to have here. And then we went to the nursery. It was like. Three guys, three friends of mine, we went in there and, uh, like, uh, the older ladies were looking at us coming through there. You know, they got some guys had the, they go t shirt on with the tattoos and stuff, you know, and I was like, I was like a kid in a candy store.

Omar: 1:43:00

Look at that plant

David: 1:43:01

right there. Can that, is that an annual plant or is that a perennial plant? I want to know these things. And, uh, that's, that's, like I said, it's one of my great pleasures right now.

Jimmy: 1:43:10

I never heard Dave say that about the plants going to the thing like that. That's, that's awesome to hear, but he all the time tells me he likes, uh, Menards, uh, you know, uh, Lowe's.

David: 1:43:20

They told me for my birthday. They said your birthday is coming up. You're going to have a birthday party. What should we get you? I said, look, man, I don't want, I don't want, this is what I want. Give me a Home Depot gift card or Menards gift card or Walmart gift card, and that'll make me happy. I don't care about the amount on there, whatever you can afford. That's I want to be, I want to go to Menards. Menards

Omar: 1:43:41

now that we're older. It's like toys or us man, Yeah.

David: 1:43:45

Well, my friend tells me I have to put blinders on. I'm going down that man, that's a nice cabinet. I wasn't even thinking about having a cabinet. If I saw the cabinet, this, that's where I'm at right now in my life right here, you know? Okay.

Omar: 1:43:56

No, that's good man. I'm sure it is. The little things that seems like bringing you joy, man. That's awesome, man. Pretty, pretty continuous for you. Yeah. You know what? I wanna give you guys an opportunity, and I know you guys reached out to come out here. Is there anything we haven't talked about? Something you want to share something on your heart, you know, you know, whatever you guys

David: 1:44:12

I just like I said Like I like, you know like it struck me being uh and and in some of these areas doing is passing through the area and I saw that park and I saw the the change and the demographic of population there and I saw How developers have gentrified that area and I'm not upset with any person who's a gentrifier. They're just trying to live their life as well, you know, as best they can. The young people trying to do for their own life. And, uh, it's just a tragedy to me that, you know, gang members lost their lives for this area and you don't even own that area, and the same thing happened again and again. You know, hopefully your eyes will be open up and then you could, you could change your life because you can always change your life.

Omar: 1:44:54

Yeah, you, you know what, going back to, um, uh, what's the word we use? Mentors. We need men in this Hispanic community, Mexican community that are business owners that can mentor others, like, like, I, I know like one thing like in high school is that they hardly teach, I don't even think they teach you how to handle finances. Uh, you mentioned something about, uh, Um, when somebody passes away and the, the, the, the hit that the family takes financially trying to bury their loved one. And I had a coworker tell me, Oh, he's a African American. And he said that how his family, they learned to start getting life insurances. And these are things that I know, like, let's say like growing up, I never heard that you should get a life insurance or things like that. Other communities know about it. And so when somebody passes away instead of being a burden on the family now, they're in a sense They're leaving a little bit of money for their family instead of the family having to scrounge up money to bury them So like just I think it's important to have mentors businessmen Show you how to handle your finances, you know savings account checking account investment and what have you the things that will Now we're raising these men like you mentioned it's unfortunate they died for let's say for the black that area, but they don't own it How do we get these men to manly? To really own property, you know, and Oh, go ahead,

David: 1:46:16

Omar. With this platform here, you are a pillar of the community right now. You are, I consider you a pillar of the community because you have a platform to get message out and that's important. Why do you think we're here? Why do you think we're here right now? We could be doing other things. We're here. And, uh, some people say to me, hey, listen, uh, this podcast could, uh, financially compensate you some other podcast. I'm not interested in that. You know, I'm not, I'm, uh, my sincerity is, is what I'm speaking on now. You know, this is, this is what, this is who I am right now. You could, you could make your opinion of me however you want. That's fine with me. You know, don't get in my way if you mean something bad, but I'm not going to get in your way either, you know, and, and then that's just it, you know, but you're a part of the community. And, uh, you have a platform and it's a good thing. That's why my cousin and I were here.

Jimmy: 1:47:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, to add to what Dave said, I'm just hoping, again, like, the 16th of September, that Mexicans show their pride, they celebrate peacefully and enjoy themselves, so we won't see a repeat, because, you know, we're better than that, you know. Let's show Chicago what, you know, the Chicago Mexican American community is all about. Show our pride and celebrate and have a wonderful time. But I would say, as far as anything else, um, um, that I would like to talk about is this. You know, I have this campaign, Build Communities, Not Prisons. I helped push to get Stateville closed. Terrible conditions at Staple prison. We're gonna push next to close Logan. The women had suffering from the same conditions This is something that I do It's it's not for everybody I know everybody doesn't want to hear about closing prisons or making the prisons better for Individuals or trying to get people out, but that's something I'm gonna be doing a lot of and I hope that people understand that You know what it does. It doesn't just affect like us. It didn't affect our incarceration. Our wrongful convictions didn't only affect us. It affected our family. It affected some of our friends and then the larger communities that we came from. So, you know, hopefully people will see that and we can see some change in that area as well.

David: 1:48:16

I'm glad my primo, I'm glad my primo made up the point about the Mexican Independence Day Parade, or any parade coming up, like, uh, before, you know, the Ku Klux Klan, they would, they would hang, uh, black people, Mexican people, or somebody, and, like, you say to yourself, who needs the Klan? You're exterminating your own. The Klan is not even needed. The Klan is going to sit back there, and they're going to laugh at you while you kill each other. Take it. Some cops, some, not all cops, not all cops, but some cops gonna laugh, they're gonna kill each other. What difference does it make anyway? They're animals anyway, so they're gonna kill each other, but uh, you know, let's show something different. Let's show let's show something better, you know, that's better not to do that stupid stuff than doing that stuff, you know,

Omar: 1:48:58

right? I know you definitely agree, you know, man. I just want to thank both of you man for me It's a privilege. It's an honor that you would you guys will come here, you know, like you mentioned You're not financially compensated because I ain't got no money to give so But no, no for real is it's an honor like I had a motive, you know, that's not a motive No, no. Yeah. No, no, but I I believe in divine connections. Like when I met you that one day it was just You You know, like when you, I said, man, I had to go Google your name, you know, cause I knew the name, but not the face. And then

David: 1:49:27

that's going to Google your name when they say the, your platform,

Omar: 1:49:31

you know, man, you know what, the way I look at it is God's platform, man. Cause I just want to like bring, bring them a share a message of hope, bring these testimonials. And what makes it easy for me is that. It's really not about me. It's about the guy sitting in the chair right here. You know what I'm saying? That I

Jimmy: 1:49:44

want to say it's an honor and privilege for us to be here, but you know, not, not, not for you to have us here, but as

David: 1:49:49

you welcome welcome us. So, uh, you know, very hospitable. We appreciate that.

Omar: 1:49:54

No, that's one thing I learned from my family, man, hospitality for real, that when I, when I started this. God plays that word in my heart, hospitality, man, open up your home. And that's where, when I started with the workout in the word, inviting the guys just to work out, getting the word,

David: 1:50:07

no, no. Yeah, but Fabian, my friend, Fabian, Fabian, Santiago, uh, we went, we were going to New Orleans and this man was so gracious to me that he gave me his bed and he slept on the air mattress, you know, and I forget that guy. I love that guy a lot. And so, you know, this is showing me hospitality that will never forget.

Omar: 1:50:23

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's very important. There's a little things that make a big difference, you know, but uh, Man, if there's anything nothing else you you guys want to share man, if you guys I always ask my guests If you guys could close us out in the prayer, so you guys could take turns and we'll wrap it up man.

David: 1:50:36

I'll say a prayer All right, I'll just say in uh We're praying in the name of jesus that You know people's lives will change for the better to leave the mentality of hurting anybody alone And just prosper in your family and do good things in life, you know, it'll come back to you multiple, multiple fold. And, um, I pray in Jesus name that We could make a difference in helping somebody, you know, leave the path of destruction and the path of positivity in Jesus name. I pray.

Omar: 1:51:12

Amen. Amen. Thanks for that, man. Thank you guys for your time. And with that, we're going to get ready to wrap up. Uh, Matthew four 16 reads the people who sat in darkness have seen a great light and upon those who sat in the region and the shadow of death light has dawn alongside my guests, David Ayala and Jimmy Soto. My name is Omar Calvillo and we are wrong to strong.