"The Highway Patrolman Encounters the Bank Robber" w/ Mark Corbett & Steve Watt

This podcast episode shares the powerful stories of Mark Corbett and Steve Watt. Mark and Steve recount their journey from a tragic shooting during a bank robbery attempt to an extraordinary tale of forgiveness and redemption. Mark who was deep in debt and seeing no way out decides to rob a  bank one day. The call goes out and Steve, who is a highway patrolman responds to the call and begins to look for the suspects vehicle. This is eventually puts them on a collision course that ends with both men being shot by one another. Mark, who had shot Steve, spent 40 years in prison, during which Steve forgave him and even advocated for his release. Mark embraced Christianity after having served twenty two years in prison and found profound freedom through faith and community support. The conversation highlights themes of transformation, the impact of forgiveness, and their upcoming film project, concluding with reflections on the vital importance of forgiving others.

Transcript

0:15

From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago and from around the country. Some of them were gang members, drug dealers, incarcerated victims, and perpetrators of violence. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, hope, faith and perseverance, these have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong.

Omar: 0:59

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of wrong to strong Chicago I'm your host. My name is Omar Calvillo and tonight we're doing something different, something we haven't done before. I'm actually having a podcast interview with two guests. Uh, so I'd like to welcome to the podcast, Mark Corbette and, uh, Steve Watt. Uh, Mark is joining us, I believe from Wyoming and Steve is out there in Denver, uh, Colorado area. Uh, so, so welcome to, to, to the podcast brothers.

1:27

Thank you.

Omar: 1:29

So, so the reason we have these two guests, they have an amazing story to tell. Uh, and, and there's a pivotal moment in their lives that were both of their lives, uh, intersect and, uh, we're going to get to that. I believe that this testimony is going to bless you guys. It's a powerful testimony of of God's grace, his mercy, uh, forgiveness, and, you know, stay tuned. You guys are in for a, for a treat tonight. So I'd like to welcome my guests. I'm going to start off with, with, uh, with Steve and what we're going to do here. We're just going to go back and forth with their stories. You know, Steve's going to start off, you know, sharing part of his story and then Mark will share some and we're just going to tie both of these stories together and you guys are going to be amazed by what God did in their life. So let's start off with you, Steve. If you could share maybe what part of the country you grew up in and if you could explain what was life like, you know, in those early years.

2:20

I grew up in the northeast corner of Wyoming. Actually 52 miles Southeast of where Mark is right now. Uh, I grew up on 110, 000 acre of cattle ranch. Um, I was one of seven children. I also happened to be the best looking of the seven children. Um, now my, my siblings will argue with that, but, um, it's true.

Omar: 2:44

We can argue with the camera, you know,

2:46

That's right. Can't argue with the camera. I, even though I grew up as a cowboy, I grew up wanting to be a Wyoming highway patrolman. When I was 7, 8 years old, we saw a car wreck and the trooper was working the accident and had the coolest car, coolest lights, just a fantastic uniform, a big honking gun. And I said, that's it. That's what I want to be. And, um, that's, uh, when my dream of being a Wyoming Highway Patrolman started. At

Omar: 3:19

an early age. All right. Thanks for sharing that. Hey now, Mark, can you tell us what part of the country you grew up in and how was life for you those early years?

Mark: 3:28

I grew

Omar: 3:28

up in, uh,

Mark: 3:29

the Twin Cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul. I grew up in St. Louis Park, which is a suburb of Minneapolis. It was a good high school. I grew up around middle class people. I had paper routes and jobs as a kid and led a pretty normal life. And then, I went to college at the university of Minnesota for a year. Then I went into the army where I was a military policeman for three years and I guarded nuclear missiles in Germany. I'll hand it back to Steve. What, what, what,

Omar: 4:05

what, what years were this when you were there in Germany, like in military?

Mark: 4:10

Thanks for asking that.

Omar: 4:11

Uh,

Mark: 4:12

I was asked I was in Germany Uh, from 1976 to 1979.

Omar: 4:17

Okay. All right. So, um, I'm gonna go back to you, Steve. Uh, can you tell us how life? Like maybe those teenagers, you know, as you're growing up, that desire as a

4:29

cowboy, I was a party animal. I mean, drank lots of beer. Um, and, um, never, never got into any real trouble. The cops always watched out for me. They all knew that I wanted to be a Wyoming state trooper, and so they kinda kind of took care of me and kept me out of too much trouble. Um, and I, uh, I, uh, joined the Wyoming Highway Patrol in 1979. Uh, at the point in time when I joined, I was the youngest. Trooper in the state of Wyoming.

Omar: 5:03

How old were you then?

5:04

I was 23 years old. In fact, um, I had turned, uh, 23 by one day, uh, when I joined. So I just barely made it, you had to be 23 or older and I turned 23. And then the next day I was a state trooper.

Omar: 5:23

Got it. Not, not, was there anybody like in your family that, that, that took that route as far as like law enforcement? No, I, I'm

5:30

the only one in my family that took that route of law enforcement and in fact, um, most of my family couldn't believe that, you I was doing it, um, because I, I was, I was pretty rowdy as a, as a teenager. I, um, I got, I, I did some things that, um, really, really weren't too awful good, but, um, I made it.

Omar: 5:57

Okay. Alright. So, so you got there. No, Now Mark. I was gonna ask you, I knew you mentioned that, you went to the, the military and, what role were you filling in the military?

Mark: 6:05

I was a military policeman.

Omar: 6:08

Yes. Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you MP. Now, as you were growing up, like, is there anybody in your family or friend that influenced you maybe to go that route as far as like military, you know, police, you know, obviously that that's what you were doing in there.

Mark: 6:22

No, nobody influenced me. It was the right decision at the right time for me. But no, there was nobody that there was a friend that I went to high school with his dad was a chief of police and. Uh, he said I should go there and they have good benefits and it was a good experience and I listened to him and I went. Okay.

Omar: 6:43

All right. So how many years did you end up serving military? Three years.

Mark: 6:47

76 to 79.

Omar: 6:50

All right. And after you left the military, where did you go? And like, where did your life head after that?

Mark: 6:58

When I was in Germany, cocaine had hit America, and now everybody knows it's addictive, it's a bad drug, but back in 1976, people didn't perceive cocaine as bad. They saw it, people saw alcohol during the prohibition, that it wasn't addictive, that it wasn't bad, and the government shouldn't tell us we couldn't do it. And I didn't know about cocaine. I came home after I got out of the military, and my best friend, or close friend, Offered me some cocaine on my birthday and I did a line and I thought it was pretty good and it was euphoric, but I knew I couldn't afford it. And I'd gone back to the university of Minnesota and he called me one day and asked me if I wanted to make 700. And I said, how do I do that? He said, sell some cocaine. And I said, I don't know how to do that. He says, you'll be surprised. There's a lot of people doing cocaine. You won't have any problem selling it. I said, all right, he said, I'll show you how to divide it up

Steve: 8:01

and

Mark: 8:02

add things to it to make more money and, uh, measure it and weight it and all that stuff. I said, okay. So my friend showed me everything and I made a few phone calls and I was surprised at the people that were doing it. I ended up, uh, selling a drug and I found that a lot of people were using. I, I was selling to a plumber. I sold to, uh, my dentist. Okay. I sold to, uh, a future attorney general of the state of Wyoming, Minnesota. Uh, I sold to housewives and I didn't sell a lot. I sold small amounts, quarter grams, half grams, mostly sometimes grams. in there, waiters, waitre buy drugs, they want to t want to make sure it's no And so we'd lay out a lin doing a line with them. W where I was making 10 15 And while they were small deals, when you're doing that many lines, pretty soon I found myself a habit. And I was doing 250 a day worth of coke, and I couldn't afford that. I was going to college, and I was using more than I was selling, and I got deeply in debt. And I tried to get out. I quit cocaine, but there was no way to pay back the money. This was Jimmy Carter's recession. The unemployment rate was 12%, and look it up. Uh, inflation rate was about Uh, 12% also, and the interest rate on money was 20%. And you look now, the interest rate on money is 4%. The, uh, unemployment rate is 4%. There's no comparison. People don't understand until they've lived through it. And at that time, I couldn't find a good paying job. I was about$15,000 in debt at that time, and I was making$5,000 a year while I was going to college with an interest rate of 20%. That's one fifth. That means the interest rate is at least 3, 000 a year. And I'm only making five. I'm not even, I'm barely getting by. I can't, I can't come up with that kind of money. So I tried construction in Minneapolis and they'd say, what kind of experience you have? Uh, can you do drywall? Are you a finished carpenter? Do you know how to weld? And I didn't have the skillsets. And you had this high unemployment rate. I remember one guy coming out from one skyscraper with a stack of 200 applications He says yours is going on the bottom and we're not hiring. So I knew I couldn't get any jobs Uh paid well, and I found out that you could make I think it was 10 or 12 dollars an hour in wyoming Which was pretty big money back then this was in 1981 So I headed to wyoming to go to the oil field I figured I'd pay off my debts, uh, take me a year or two working hard. And then I'd come back and go to school. Steve, what do

Omar: 11:13

you got? If you could share what was going on around maybe those years for you, you know, what, what was life like for you?

11:19

Um, 1979, I got on the highway patrol. I volunteered to go to Rock Springs, Wyoming. Rock Springs, Wyoming was a rough, tough boom town. I mean, there was lots of construction. It was wild and crazy. Um, my, my, my mother said to me, I volunteered to go there. She said to me, I would rather you went and go to Vietnam and go to Rock Springs, Wyoming. You're going to go down there and get shot. So. Um, that's what I did. Uh, you know, it was

Omar: 11:53

there, but it was that wild over there.

11:57

Oh, it was. It was crazy. In fact, there was a big segment on 60 minutes of the corruption in law enforcement in the city government and, you know, Um, man, every night was, you could drop your hat and get in a fight. Um, it was a great place to be a rookie cop. I, I got all sorts of experiencing in a very short period of time. Um, it was great. It was an action packed, um, a fun time. A very fun time.

Omar: 12:28

Okay, man. So wild town and here comes this wild man. So we'll go back. So you head over to Wyoming, you said you just want to get a job, you know, get back on your feet and head back to Minneapolis. But what ends up going on as you're there in Wyoming?

Mark: 12:44

I got a job in the oil field and some people just aren't meant to be in the oil field. I often said that the mechanical aptitude of a three legged dog, uh, I just don't get how things work mechanical and the rig is nothing but a big machine and I didn't belong there. And there was a lot of things that were negative. The rig I was working at was an hour, hour and a half from town. We were working 12 hour shifts. So if you work 12 hours and you got to write an hour and a half in and an hour and a half back, then you're talking 15 hours. And I didn't want to do that. Not getting sleep. And so I stayed in this abandoned trailer, it was a camper, and nobody lived in it for over two years, and there's wild cats living in it, and there's cat poop everywhere, and it smelled like cat urine, cat poop, and there's no running water. So I come back to the rig just full of grease and oil and mud, and the only way I could get clean was with a cold water hose. There was no way to take a hot shower. And I had to lay down in this bed that smelled like it was full of cat urine. And I went to the rig and the guy that was drilling wasn't putting enough chemicals in the water to keep the water down when you make connections. So every time we split the pipe, uh, water would come up and it's in the twenties and I was freezing. And I said, this just wasn't worth it. And I quit the oil field and I went to Jackson, Wyoming and I got a job as a waiter. And I tried a couple business opportunities. It didn't work and they compounded my debt and I got another 5, 000 in debt. So now I'm 20, 000 in debt and everybody wanted their money at one time. All the creditors started calling and, and about the same time, my boss came to me and said, we're going to lay you off. Uh, it was the end of the winter season. And, and he said, there won't be any tours here until the summer season, but we'll pick you back up in a couple of months. Well, the rent was due and I didn't have any money and I didn't have any job and I'm getting further in debt. My idea of paying back my debts is not working and it felt hopeless. And I, I was despondent and I was desperate. I had what I call the John Wayne syndrome. I believe that I, a man solves his own problems. And so I didn't reach out for guidance, something I do today routinely. And I, there was people I could have reached out to talk to, but I didn't tell people I was in deep debt and I was in trouble and didn't know what to do. And I couldn't get a job to pay off the debts. Sorry. I stood in my own problems and I got stressed and I wasn't getting sleep and the creditors are calling and I couldn't fix the problem. Uh, I didn't have the guidance and I, I was despondent and I was hopeless. So I said, well, I'll go rob a bank. I said, one of three things will happen. I'll get away and then I can pay off my debts with the money. I'll get caught. And if I go to prison, I can't pay off my debts. And so I'm not responsible. And the third thing is, uh, I could get killed and then it won't matter. So I just chose a bank at random in Craig, Colorado. And, uh, I think I'll take, I'll leave it back to you, Steve, at this moment.

Omar: 16:07

Like I guess, well, what were you doing like on that day before this incident happens, I guess, what, what, what was life like for you? You know?

16:14

That day of the bank robbery, the shooting I had been scheduled to attend a funeral for the city officer son had passed away. And so I was scheduled to. Um, attend at his funeral. And I, uh, as I got dressed that morning, I decided not to wear my bulletproof vest. I wore that my bulletproof vest every single day that I've been in uniform up to that day. And I chose that day not to wear my bulletproof vest because I had my whole day planned to stay off the street by. Going to the funeral, doing paperwork, um, doing some accident reports, and, uh, I went to lunch, and while at lunch, my dispatcher called and told me that there had been a bank robbery in Craig, Colorado, which is South of Rock Springs. And she gave me a description of, uh, of the vehicle, uh, a red sports car, um, and a man driving the red sports car, uh, five foot six, six foot tall, uh, 150 to 200 pounds, medium brown hair, medium length, 25 to 35 years of age. Yeah, that that's pretty generic. That pretty much covers any white male in America. Um, and so I gave that information to my sergeant lieutenant and another trooper and I started South out of Rock Springs to look for this bank robber. I had, I don't know, 2530 minutes to kill before I. I went to that funeral and a little red car come towards me and I wasn't concerned. It had a couple of teenagers driving it and a grandpa and a grandma. So I stopped them to ask them if they'd seen this red sports car and they said, no, the only thing we've seen is a little brown compact a few miles behind us. So I turned them loose. And I kept going South and here come that little brown compact. Um, and I got behind him, um, one guy in it, uh, he fit the description, but everybody fit the description and I, I decided I'd stop him to ask him if he'd seen this red sports car. And, um, I found, uh, the bank robber.

Omar: 18:34

Right. Would you didn't know at the time, you know, I'm, I'm looking to you, uh, uh, Mark, so at this point, okay, you, you step in the bank. What, what happens? Can you, can you explain it? How did it go for you? Like, and then, you know, eventually getting in the car.

Mark: 18:48

I think the person that was most afraid in the bank was me. Uh, I never pulled the gun out later. I would find out when I went to prison, one of the guys came up to me and he said to me, remember robbing that bank five years ago in Craig, Colorado. I said, yeah. He said, well, the bank manager was my aunt and, uh, she lied to you. She did have the combination to the safe. When I had asked them to open the safe, the lady said, No, I don't have a combination. They were more controlled than I was. I was scared. I knew I'd crossed over a boundary, a boundary that things would never be the same. They gave me the money out of the chill. It's about 10, 000. I got in the car and somebody gave me a description of this red sports car, which was not accurate. I was driving this tan car. So Steve was looking for the red sports car. The description they'd given when I was driving out of Craig, Colorado, I heard on the radio that they were looking for a red sports car. And I thought, okay, I got away. And what I didn't know was that there was a lady banding eagles. Out in the country there, because this is a wide open prairie for at least 100 miles, and she was banding eagles, and, uh, she's seen a red sports car. She called in the plate and the guy was wanted in Oregon for some type of felony. And so they assumed that that was the bank robber and they dispatched Steve. And when Steve pulled me over in the tan car, it was just to ask me if I'd seen that red sports car, but I had stolen plates on my car. So I knew when he called the plates in, they wouldn't match. So I jumped out of the car and I shot two bullets at Steve's head. One hit him in the eye. Then I walked up to his car very quickly before he had a chance to respond, pull open the door. And I shot him four more times in the side, uh, as he's turning away from me to keep from being further shot. And, uh, I reached in and grabbed his radar detector. I thought I was grabbing his microphone because my adrenaline was so high, I couldn't distinguish the two. And I turned around and left him for dead. Steve, would you like to take it from there?

21:14

Yeah, I'll take it from there. Um, it was, uh, it was pretty crazy. As soon as I flipped on my red lights, Mark, it Slammed on his brakes and he, he jumped out of his car really fast and I hit the latch on my door and kicked my door open because I, I wanted to be out of my car to, um, I never made it. He fired, like he said, the 2 bullets into the windshield. The 1st, 1 came through the windshield through my sunglasses and hit me in the left eye. It stopped the thickness of a piece of paper from entering my brain. Um, broke out the back of my eye socket. Um, no bone fragments, uh, penetrated my brain. Now there, I have family members that will argue and say, um, that, um, I suffered brain damage that day, but really, truly, I didn't. I'm, I'm think I'm normal, or I'm pretty close to normal. Um, and, uh, uh, I threw myself, uh, the second bullet ricocheted off the windshield and I threw myself over in the front seat to get out of the line of fire. And that's when Mark come running back to my car and leaned in and, and shot me a point blank in the left lower back. One bullet went clean through me, hit me in the liver, uh, missed a major blood vessel in my liver by a quarter of an inch. One bullet hit me in the spine and stopped a 16th of an inch from my spinal cord. And then two bullets bounced around inside and ripped up my bowel, my intestines, um, did all sorts of damage to my abdominal cavity. Mark grabbed my radar, threw it out in the middle of the highway and went running for his car and I got out of my car. And I went to the left front fender, and I'm standing there with my gun drawn, thinking to myself, you can only shoot in self defense.

Omar: 23:11

He's not trying to hurt me. Could I ask you something? Even after all that trauma, all that damage, you're still thinking about the lawful thing to do at that moment? Like, with these bullets in you, like?

23:23

Yeah. It goes back to training, you know, you, you train, train, train, and you do what, what you trained.

Omar: 23:32

I would say one thing is training, but another thing is like in the heat of the moment, you know, I would, You know, for you to be able to respond that way, that's to me is amazing.

23:42

Well, I, that's what I was doing. I was thinking you can only shoot in self defense and he's not trying to hurt me, so I can't, I can't shoot him. And then I can only shoot a dangerous fleeing felon. He's not trying to leave the area, so I can't shoot him. So I stood there and waited. And when he got back into his car and his car moved, uh, I remember firing one bullet and my, that first bullet. Uh, hit that back window and it shattered and, and I'm thinking to myself, gosh, that's neat. I've never seen any, uh, seen a window do that. It was just, it shattered and my first bullet hit the little metal bar in the headrest right in the center of the back of Mark's head and it ricocheted down and hit him in the left shoulder and knocked him forward and to the right. Out of the way of my next five bullets, which would have hit him in the chest cavity. So my first bullet saved his life. Um, uh, even if you don't believe in God, I don't know how you can not go. Man, God's hand was in that whole thing because, uh, I should have died. I should have been crippled, something. And Mark should have died. That first, my first bullet saved his life. He went up the road and he ran into, uh, my best friend, uh, who shot at him 15 to 20 times shooting a 12 gauge shotgun, uh, uh, shooting double aught buck and slugs, and hit him with one pelleted double aught buck in the same spot I hit him. Wow. How about, how about you, Mark? Back to you.

Steve: 25:16

Yes.

Mark: 25:18

Um. That day was full of miracles. Steve was talking about his friend, Tracy self that shot with that single buck double at buck, but after I shot Steve, I drove away and a police car went past me with a sirens, uh, turning. And then another policeman pulled his car across the road. So I knew there was no place to go. My car was shot up, uh, the back windshield, the front windshield. I'd been shot. And it's fight or flight. So I grabbed the money, started running across the open prairie. There's no trees. There's no mountains or no, it's just flat. I mean, I'm not going to get away, but I grabbed the money bag of money and I've been shot and I'm running across the prairie and law enforcement started responding from that area. Highway patrol, city police, probably game and fish. Anybody that had a badge because they all knew that, uh, a peace officer had been shot and they responded very quickly. And I would. And Steve can correct me. There was about five of them. There were probably about 50 yards behind me and they fired over, I'd say at least 20 shots, maybe more. Uh, and all of them missed me. Um, so all those shots missed me. Uh, Steve's first bullet didn't kill me. He missed me with the next four because of bullet. Force me down. Uh, the bullet in his spine could have killed Steve. The one in his eye could have killed Steve. The one in his liver could have killed Steve. There were many, many miracles that day. Uh, I think God's hand was on those bullets. Every single one of them.

Omar: 27:05

Wow, man. That's, that's incredible. Now, um, back, back, back to you, Steve. So your shot. What ambulance comes? What's next? What do you remember next? Like, as far as for you,

27:19

I remember sitting at the front of my car watching Mark drive away and I thought to myself, boy, I don't know if anybody heard me. So I got up and I got back into my car. And I screamed over my radio, uh, that I'd been shot and, and I heard someone say, start an ambulance. And I knew they'd heard me. So I thought, well, I better get my first aid kit and get compresses on my wounds. So I started for the trunk of my car to get my first aid kit. And I get to the rear tire on the driver's side and my heart was beating pretty fast. And I thought, boy, you better. You better lay down and get your heart slowed down or you're going to bleed to death before anybody gets to you. So I laid down right next to my car. I'm laying on my right side. I'm facing my car. And, uh, my car's still running. And there's the tailpipe right in my face, six inches away from my face, the tailpipe. I'm sucking in exhaust. And, uh, I wasn't, I wasn't a Christian at that point in my life, um, but I said a prayer, I said, God, I don't know if I'm going to die. If I do take care of my wife, please help me. And, uh, I, I, now I can picture God just kind of sitting there. He's shaking his head going, boy, you're shot five times. You're trying to gas yourself. You want me to bail you out? Um, okay. So he sent a truck driver to help me. He, he got my car shut off and, and, uh, and then another trooper showed up to start performing first aid. Um, the ambulance came, they hauled me to the hospital and, uh, put me on a table. Um, and there was a sheet right between Mark and I, that's it.

Omar: 29:09

He was in the same room

29:10

with

Omar: 29:10

you.

Mark: 29:12

Yeah. Well, go ahead, Mark. Yes. It was a small hospital. Uh, they didn't have the facilities and they were working on Steve and, uh, they, there wasn't much work to be done on me because I wasn't injured to the extent that Steve was, kept seeing these officers walk in, giving me this look of disgust, uh, and I never felt lower. In my life than at that moment, uh, Steve's wife came in, uh, and she was a city police woman. And, uh, Steve, why don't you tell them what happened there?

29:52

Yeah, they, uh, they told her that she could see me and instead of stepping to the right to where I was, she stepped to the left where Mark was and there he is laying there and she's by herself and she has her. Gun service weapon, and she thinks to herself, I can kill him and I'll never be convicted distraught wife, and she reached down and put her hand on her gun and started to bring it out of her holster when another officer stepped in. Grabbed her hand and shoved the gun back in the holster and said, see, Steve. Again, there's God's hand in the whole thing.

Omar: 30:38

Yeah, I mean, I, I, well, what I was thinking too, like at any moment, I was going to ask you that, uh, Mark, I like, I know like police officers in the heat of moment, I was thinking maybe another officer might have tried to attempt to take your life, but his own wife, you know, went in there. And that, that, that was actually at the back of my mind. Cause I know like. Like I said, in the heat of the moment, you react, you know, with your emotions, with anger, like you want to take vengeance, you know? So I would imagine it had to cross somebody's mind there, you know?

Mark: 31:05

Well, Steve, you can correct me if I get this part of the story, right. But wrong. I think what happened at that moment, and some of the things Steve told me later, I find out reading in a book that was done about us, newspaper articles, some of the things, but if I remember correctly, Steve's best friend, Tracy Self, it was involved in my actual apprehension. Uh, when he came up on me and I was laying down face down, uh, I think he pulled his gun or was thinking about shooting me and an officer stood between him and me because, uh, it would have not been good necessarily for Tracy or for his career. Uh, when we got into the car and I have no idea that this day why they did this, but they put me in the front seat, if I remember correctly. And Tracy was in the back, uh, and he was with another cop and I said, is the cop dead? I was, I didn't know what Steve's status was. And Tracy thought he heard me say, I hope the cop's dead. And, uh, again, he went for his gun and he was thinking about shooting me and the cop next to him stopped him. Have I got that right, Steve? All this details? Yeah,

Steve: 32:22

yeah. Close enough. Yeah. Yep. Okay.

Mark: 32:25

Thanks for having me. So, uh, the, the Lord's hand was on a lot of hearts that day. Uh, cause it was the heat of the moment. Like you're saying, when you shoot a cop, there's nothing worse to other cops than a cop shooter and there no holds barred. And if I'd been a lot of places, I wouldn't have made it. To that, uh, hospital, they would have just finished me out in a prairie and nobody would have thought twice about it. Uh, but they didn't, uh, God

32:56

had a different plan.

Omar: 32:58

Yeah, definitely had to be God's hand. Cause I'm thinking back then in those years, I mean, there wasn't like accountability like today where they had all this forensic evidence. They could have just said, Oh, he got shot during the, you know, the shootout and that was it. You would have been buried and over with, right?

Steve: 33:12

Oh,

Omar: 33:12

absolutely. So, so back to you, Steve. So you, obviously you have surgery. How, how long was the surgery for you? And then how did it look like, like going forward from there?

33:23

Before I got to the surgery, what they did to me in the emergency room was worse than getting shot. Um, The doctor, um, he, uh, he said to me, he said, I, I have to put a stomach pump in you, Steve. Now, stomach pumps go in your nose. They go up your nose and down. They don't go in your mouth. And, and he grabbed this hose. It was as big as a six inch fire hose. I mean, it was huge. Well, okay, maybe I'm exaggerating just a tiny bit, but he grabs this hose and he starts And in my nose, and he goes, Oh, your nose has been busted a few times. One more time isn't gonna kill you. And he just doubled up his fist and he smashed my nose, broke my nose, smeared it all over my face. And he's shoving this tube down me. And he's yelling at me to swallow, swallow. And, and blood's running everywhere out of my face. I'm crying. And, and then I said, I can't breathe. And he goes, Well, you've got so much blood in your abdominal cavity. He says, I'm going to let some, some of that blood off. So he grabbed a butcher knife. Well, okay. Maybe it wasn't a butcher knife. Sure looked like it, but it was a big, a great big needle. And, and, uh, he poked around on my gut. And then he took that needle and just slammed it into my gut. And I'm laying there on my back and I, and I see blood squirt across the ceiling, a big old white streak of blood squirt across the ceiling. And, uh, I, yeah, it was, it was pretty tough in the emergency room. And, and finally then another doctor grabbed my eyelids and jerked them open and I slapped his hands and I yelled. The next person that touches me, I'm getting off this table and I'm going to kick your butt. And, and, uh, the surgeon jumped back and said, everybody leave him alone. Let's go to the OR. Um, he's probably has brain damage because he's wanting to fight. And, uh, I'm going, I don't have brain damage. I'm just Sick of you people. And I remember in the operating room, um, the surgeon going, I'm going to open him up and the anesthesiologist said, give me a second to put him out. And the doctor said, I don't have a second. And then I felt, I felt this burning on my stomach where he had started cutting me open already. And then I went to sleep.

Omar: 35:59

Man, that's. That's harsh. The fact that you were still like conscious after all that, man. That's.

36:06

Yeah, I never did lose consciousness. I was conscious the whole time.

Omar: 36:10

Okay. So, so then, uh, you, you, um, how long was the surgery and then what, what, what diagnosis? Or, uh. What was it? It was.

36:18

It was like 10 hours, uh, 10 hours worth of surgery to sew everything up. They took my eye out and, and sewed up so many holes in my abdomen, you know, the bowels and intestines, and they cut out part of my liver. And, um, they, uh, uh, then I went, I went to the ICU. I spent three days in ICU and five days in a regular room and got out.

Omar: 36:45

Okay. Oh, like a, like a long term diagnosis then, or did they have to see like what was going to happen? Like,

36:53

they, they, they told me, they said, as soon as, as soon as you can get an artificial eye, we'll let you go back out on the streets and try it. And it, it took 2 months of healing to, uh, before I got an artificial eye. Um, but when I woke up, I woke up full of hatred, anger, bitterness towards Mark, man, I hated him. Every breath of air was to hate him.

Omar: 37:17

All right. Mark, you, you want to share your part? So you're in the hospital, you know, that, uh, you're right next to him. What did you need to require surgery? And then what, what happened when you, when you got out the hospital, like

Mark: 37:28

I didn't really require surgery. I had a bullet in my back. The doctor first went to go cut on me without any anesthesia and I asked him. Uh, he was gonna give me a general anesthetic and he said no. I said are you gonna give me a local? He said no. I said why not? He said that copy shots are my friend. And then he thought about it and he gave me a local anesthetic. He cut out the bullet compared to Steve's injuries. It was nothing, absolutely nothing. And I went to the jail cell and I would sit there for about six weeks before I was sentenced to go to prison. Um, I think it was about, no, it was four months.

Omar: 38:16

How long was the trial? Was it pretty quick? Obviously. I mean, they probably had all the evidence. Uh, how long did that take? Like to get the conviction?

Mark: 38:23

Well, I, before we get to the trial, I want to tell you a story. Yeah. Yeah. There's a guy in my jail cell, and I'm, I'm, we've got a number of cells, three or four of them, that face into a day room, and there's a guy in the cell next to me that was murdered when I was in there. What happened was, he was a young man, he didn't want to do, he was going to end up with three or four life sentences, so he asked one of his co defendants to kill him. So, the co defendant tied his hands behind his back, and then he choked him out, and I didn't know any of this. I got up, um, and I'd been laying in my bed. I went to look at the guy in the cell next to me and he's just real still and he's not moving and and he's normally up and about. And I started going to the cell and the co defendant said, I wouldn't go in there. Uh, he's dead. And I said, Oh, I know CPR. And so I go in to walk in and he said, I wouldn't go in there. Anyway, I got to thinking about it. I said, this is not good. If my prints are all over, uh, this man. So I backed out and I went into my cell and then The guy that had killed him kept telling jailers, this guy's dead. You gotta get the body outta here. This guy's dead. You gotta get the body. An hour or two go by. Finally it resonated and they called in officers from the streets and I'm laying on my bed and I look up and there's this guy looking at me really, really mean, and just standing at me, uh, And I would say it's only six or 12, and he's got a gun, a big

40:02

gun,

Mark: 40:03

a 3 57. And the guy that was looking at me really mean, that was Steve and he was mad and he was talking about all this hatred. I am sure glad I didn't say something smart. I like at that moment, because I probably wouldn't be here telling you about the story. So Steve just gives me this look at the chest and walks out of the, out of the jail. So, cause I think I said, remember what I said, Steve? I don't remember what

Steve: 40:28

you said, Mark.

Omar: 40:32

How many months had this been since the incident?

40:37

It had been a couple of months.

Omar: 40:39

Okay, and you were fully recovered, like active, like walking? Yeah, I was back on duty.

40:45

Yeah, I was back on duty out on the streets, wearing my uniform, carrying my gun. 357 Magnum.

Omar: 40:52

So, so, so you get the call to go to the prison. What's, what's your, uh, what was your, I guess, point of view, like going in there and then seeing them?

41:00

I was just back in the, I was back in the, the detention officers up. That's all I was, was to back them up. Uh, because these, uh, the guy that committed the murder was a pretty bad man.

Omar: 41:15

So you were just in there for protection for the, yep. I was

41:18

just in there to back them up.

Omar: 41:19

Yeah. Along

41:21

with some other officers.

Omar: 41:23

So, so, so what's your perspective when you see him? I know he shared his point of view. When I,

41:27

when I saw him, I thought. God, I can kill him. I I can do it. I got my gun and, and they'll never convict me. And then I went, I'm outta here. I, and I took off running and the, and the detention officers are going, where are you going? And I, and I just kept right on running.

Omar: 41:47

All right.

41:47

Because I, I, I knew I had to get away. I, I had to get out of there or I was gonna do something stupid.

Omar: 41:54

Yeah, gotcha. Okay. All right, Mark. So, so you're there and, uh, take us to, you know, like I said, the, the trial and then what was the sentence that they handed down to you,

Mark: 42:04

the judge, and I find this out later from Steve, the judge was, uh, going to give me a 20 year sentence, 20 bottom. I don't know how much on top, which would maybe 20, 20. He was going to give you 20 years.

Omar: 42:21

So, okay, thanks. Whenever. 50% right? Uh, 10 years out of that.

Mark: 42:27

14.

Omar: 42:28

14, okay. Alright.

Mark: 42:29

And I, and I would, I would've been gone. So, uh, I'm in jail and I'd never been in trouble before. And I'm talking to a guy, a youngster that had been up to the prison and he told me that lifers were doing less time than people that took sentences of numbers, like a 20 or 30. So I went to my attorney and I said, this is what I've been told. I said, can you check into it? My attorney called the parole board. The pro board told him that was true that, uh, for the last 30, 40, 50 years, because of commutations, that people's life sentences were doing an average of nine years, nine months. And people on sentence of years were doing 12 years, six months for the same crime. So I told my attorney, I said, I want a life sentence. And my attorney advised me against it. And I, uh, my attorney also called the warden who he'd gone to college with. The warden verified what the parole board said. The guys were doing less time on life. So I said, I plead guilty, but I wanted a life sentence. So the judge, uh, even in, during sentencing said that he thought this was a bad idea, uh, my pleading guilty. So I pled guilty, uh, on stipulation, I'd be given life. And so I was given a life sentence and I was sent to prison. Uh, had I taken the sentence, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Had I take, had I taken the sentence the judge wanted, I would have been out in 14 years. Instead I did 40 years and 11 months.

Omar: 44:04

Okay. Can I ask you this? That a life sentence over there, what Wyoming, how does that work? Like after, uh, how many years are you eligible, I guess, to go maybe a parole board and see if they will let you out early or how, how, how, how does that work when, when they give you a life sentence, I guess,

Mark: 44:21

what, what had been happened historically back for decades and decades. Is that governor's parole board would recommend inmates for commutations to shorten their sentence. And so say you come in with a life sentence, they might, the governor might cut your sentence down to a 90 to life, then a 70 to life. And then three or four years later, an 80 to life. And after four or five commutations, the cuts would be big enough that you could get out. And this has worked served Wyoming well for many, many decades, uh, because It gave guys hope and opportunity to get out and the guys that changed they could get out. It's not that way now. Today there's, there's no opportunity for offenders to get out in Wyoming with lengthy sentences even if they've changed. Governors have quit giving out commutations, all but quit. Because, well, everybody knows what happened with Willie Horton. Uh, uh, when,

Omar: 45:22

you know, I don't, I don't know that name or I'm not familiar with his story, like

Mark: 45:31

Okay. I want you to look up after this podcast and have your viewers. So even I are from a different generation. Okay. Uh, Willie Horton, when Bush was running for president, he ran against a guy by the name of Michael Dukakis, who was the governor of Massachusetts. And there was a man that had committed murder and he was out on a weekend furlough. And while he was out on furlough, he'd done like seven years. Uh, he went to a teacher's house. Okay. And he tied up her boyfriend and he raped her all weekend in front of the boyfriend's and, when Bush's campaign found out about this, they, they tied Willie Horton to Dukakis because he was the governor. Dukakis did not. Decided that Willie Horton could go out on a furlough. That was the Department of Corrections. That was the norm for the country at that time. So they made Dukakis look weak on crime and that cost him a lot of points in the polls and it may have cost him the election. And after that, politicians didn't dare look soft on crime. The other thing that happened was CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News. Previously, you didn't have round the clock cable news, so you don't have evening news. And they can only talk about so much crime, and most of them would be local, even the national can only talk about so much. But when you have the cable news, they have 24 hours to fill. So, they would look at crime in every state, and a governor might do 100 guys stay out of trouble. But if just one got in trouble, they would focus on that one, and go interview the victims. And the governor's career would be finished. He couldn't go on to higher office. So the politicians quit giving commutations and it wasn't just in Wyoming. That's nationwide. I don't know if we're gonna have time in this interview. Uh, we should probably go forward, but I'm one of the lucky few that got out and I got a commutation and, uh, I'll talk a little bit about it. Okay, I'm jumping ahead. Wait, uh, you know what if you want

Omar: 47:40

Let's hold there and then we'll get to how you eventually get the commutation Now I want to go back and then we'll get back to you now steve. I know you mentioned, uh, Um of having that anger, uh, so take us through those years Obviously, you know mark ends up in prison, but what's going on on the outside with you, uh personally emotionally Because I know uh, we were on the zoom meeting and I was able to hear a little bit of your testimony You So I want to get to that part, what's going on with you and how, how is it what you're feeling and like, as you're processing that, that event, like, uh, affecting you, your marriage and your, maybe even like on the force, you know, like.

48:17

I had, I had, uh, went back out on the streets and I was so full of hatred, anger, bitterness. I was so scared. I was, I was so frightened. Um, I couldn't do my job. And, uh, um, after Almost a year, uh, my employer, the highway patrol said, look, we've given you a chance. You either go out there and do your job or you get out, we'll fire you. And, um, I couldn't, I, I couldn't do my job. So, and I didn't want to get fired. So I, I left the highway patrol, um, and my anger and bitterness was just, I mean, it was a cancer, it was consuming me. And, uh, my, uh, my wife was an atheist. She was a city officer. And one night, um, while I was struggling all this time during this year, she had a chaplain ride with her and she said to him, she said, you suppose if there is a God and anything to do with Steve being alive today, And he could have just flat out told her yes, but he didn't. He said, I don't, I don't know. What do you think? Let's talk about it. So they started talking about it. He witnessed her, he shared Jesus with her, um, and, and salvation with her. And one night while we were laying in bed, right next to each other, I'm full of hate, and she says this prayer, she said, God, uh, if you're for real, I confess my sins to you and I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. Man, bolts of lightning, the room lit up. No, it doesn't happen that way, but wouldn't it be cool if it did? Um, it happens on the inside. Yeah, it happens on the inside. I didn't know any of this was going on in her life. She never, never told me about it. Uh, I moved away from Rock Springs, found another job, went to pick her up. And, uh, we were driving around Rock Springs, uh, And the next day we were moving to our new home, and she said to me, she said, you know, this morning I was baptized. I'm a Christian. And I said, well, that's neat. Maybe I ought to be baptized. And she said, well, hold on a second. There's a little bit more to it than being dunked in some water. Let's, uh, let's go talk to the chaplain. So we went talk to the chaplain right in his kitchen. I got down on my knees. And I accepted Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Now, there wasn't any bolt of lightning or thunder, but I'm, I'm telling you the truth. I'm not lying to you. The honest truth. The garbage disposal came on the 2nd. I said the prayer of salvation. The garbage disposal came on truth. It wasn't God. It was his wife. The chaplain's wife turned it on, but still, I thought it was pretty cool. And, uh, you know, um, once you become a Christian, everything's roses and, you know, furry bunnies and everything. But, uh, I still hated Mark. It wasn't I, I had no joy in my life. None whatsoever. And I finally asked the chaplain, what's wrong with me? How come I don't have this joy? And he said, have you forgiven the man that shot you? And I said, of course I have. And he said, you're a liar. Um, don't ever ask a chaplain or a preacher. They'll tell you the truth. Um, and, and I, I stomped out of there. I was mad at him. And a few more months go by and I finally go back to him and I said, what do I do? He said, why don't you, uh, why don't you just write Mark a letter and tell him what's going on in your life? And I, uh, uh, I'd written a couple articles for a police magazine. 1 was about the shooting and 1 was, uh, about becoming a Christian. And so I wrote Mark a letter and I sent those 2 articles to him and the exact words in my letter were. Mark, I don't wish you pain by sending these to you. I just want to share my joy with you. If you haven't already, won't you join me in Christ's love in the Christian family? Sign my name. And when I, when I did that, man, God just lifted this huge burden off of me. I experienced joy for the first time in my life. True joy. And, uh, and I'm, I'm, I'm, You know, that brain damage thing, well, I, I shake my finger at God and say, you can't ever ask me to do anything harder than that. And God said, Oh, yeah, wait, wait a little bit. And a few months later, God says, I want you to write another letter to Mark. And I said, No, I won't do it. I already wrote one. I've already told him I forgive him. And God said, you're going to write it. And he dropped this huge burden on me. And I lost my joy. And so I finally agreed to write the letter and the exact words in this letter where Mark, these are the hardest words I said to anyone outside of my family. I love you. And you want to know why? Because Jesus Christ first loved me. And then God just lifted that burden off of me.

Omar: 53:29

Wow, man, praise God for that. And, and, and that's something that was hard for you, but you know, that's what the Lord required of you. Okay. So you send these letters. So now, uh, Mark, you get these letters in the mail, the first one, you know, what, what, what happens there? You know, you read it.

Mark: 53:48

I was, I welcomed the letter. Um, I did not want Steve to go through life with bitterness and anger. And I, so I gave him back an 18 page response. Uh, anybody, you know, Anybody that knows me, I have trouble writing a short letter. Um, so we exchanged letters for six or eight months, and then there was a prison revival. And Steve, why don't you tell them

Steve: 54:17

what happened there? I was invited to go to this

54:22

revival to the prison where Mark was at, and initially I said no, and God said yes, and I, it didn't take me long to agree, um, and I did, I went, I went to Rollins, Wyoming, where the prison was, and that night I sat in my motel room, and I prayed, God, whatever I do, or whatever I say, when I first see him, let it be from you, and I walked into the prison, and, uh, walking into a big gymnasium, and, you know, And Mark comes through the door on the other side and and we see each other and we walked out into the middle of the floor. Everybody knows the story. Everybody knows Mark and I and our story and everybody's watching us and and Mark sticks out his hand. to shake hands and I couldn't shake his hand. I couldn't I couldn't do it. I couldn't reach out and take his hand and shake his hand. I threw my arms around him and I hugged him and I said, God, I'm glad I didn't kill you. And he said, I'm glad I didn't kill you. And I'm thinking like a cop. Now I'm thinking to myself, boy, I bet you are sucker. You'd be on death row right now if you had. And then I think, yeah. I got my arms wrapped around him. I can kill him. I know how to do this with my bare hands. And then I turned loose and went, Nope, Nope, that's not me. I'm not going to do that. No, that's not me anymore. And, and we sat down, we talked the whole day, the whole day, and shared the gospel with him, shared Jesus with him. And, uh, at the end of the time there, there was a service and there was an altar call. And I asked Mark if he, uh, wanted to go up and accept Christ, uh, at the altar call.

Omar: 56:08

So what, what do you end up doing, uh, Mark?

Mark: 56:12

I think if I remember correctly, Steve can correct me, that I told him I couldn't do it. I couldn't be phony and say just what Steve wanted to hear. Yeah. That's exactly. Okay. Uh, Steve, uh, became an integral part of my life for decades. Uh, he brought his family up several times to the prison, up at the Honor Farm. Uh, I played with his kids. The most important and most precious thing to him was his family, and he shared them with me in the visiting room. Uh, and he and his wife would both, Mary would both ask me to accept Christ, and I would, I couldn't do it because I didn't feel it. I grew up in a house where I'd gone to Sunday school, I'd gone to church, I'd gone to confirmation studies, gone to Bible school, done all that stuff. My family really didn't believe in Jesus, and I know that today, it took me years to figure that out because we never sat around the table and read the Bible. We didn't really pray except maybe Thanksgiving or Christmas. So my parents, I think, just sent me to, or actually my mother, just sent me to church, hoping I would meet some good people and get some good values, even though she didn't believe. And I'm not going to blame her. Uh, even if she had believed, doesn't mean I would have accepted it, but I didn't believe, even though I had been exposed to Christ. And so when g, when Steve and Marian would ask me to accept Christ, I couldn't do it because I didn't believe. And so for 22 years, it wasn't 24, Steve, it was 22 for 22 years. Um, I, uh, I said no. Uh, I said no, because I didn't, I would find out later. I had to come to the end of myself. Before I could allow Christ into my life And I don't know if this is the point we want to bring up when I became a christian or that's more to share What do you think? All right, uh omar first of all, I want to thank you because I started talking about the commutation and I jumped over a lot Of stuff and i'm glad you brought us on on on point. Uh, thank you for doing that Um, and before I go any further i'm going to talk about becoming a christian I don't know who's going to watch this, but I do want to apologize to any law enforcement or any law enforcement families. Um, the worst thing is a cop shooter. The family's worried that their loved one's not going to come home that night. And, uh, when they see that somebody on TV has been killed or shot in another state, they worry about their loved ones for weeks, months, sometimes years later. My crime affected a lot more than Steve. Steve's still paying for it. Uh, we don't have a long enough broadcast for him to tell you about all the operations he's had, all the pain he's gone through. Um, we could spend hours and hours. He, he, he just threw, threw a major surgery less than a year ago. It was eight hours long where they were putting mesh still in his body, uh, from the hernias causing. He's fought massive infections for the last three years. He's got that bullet next to his spine. His life has been irrevocably changed. So of course I'm sorry for what I did to Steve, but my, what I did impacted a lot more than Steve. It impacted his family and impacted law enforcement in general. It impacted my family. And my deepest apologies to any of the listeners that have people in law enforcement. Now I'll tell you about, uh, how I became a Christian. Inmates as well as Steve and Marion had, uh, asked me to ask Christ into my life and I couldn't feel it. And I didn't ask. I would politely rebuff, uh, their, encouragement. I was in Nevada, and Steve had run for governor, and he, in the Republican primary, got knocked out. He got to know the eventual man that won, a Democrat, Dave Friedenthal, and Steve, uh, had told, had said in front of Dave and everybody else, he'd forgiven me, and he wanted me out. And Steve assumed that, uh, Governor Friedenthal would sign a commutation for me. Governor Friedenthal signed 11 commutations. And when he came to mind, he said, no, even though Steve had personally asked him, uh, and when I got the rejection in the mail, There was more than just Steve's support for me. I had, uh, my prosecutor's support. A lot of the support I had came about because of Steve's support. Other people felt they could support me when the victim supported me, but I had my prosecutor's support for my release. Uh, he had, uh, said in the newspaper that he supported my release. This is back in 2001, in the Casper Star. My judge had supported my release since the late 1980s. Uh, Tracy self Steve's best friend. Eventually my arresting officer to make one of the main ones and support my release to wardens, uh, state Senator. So I had a lot of support for my release. I accomplished some unique things for an inmate. I had been the first inmate in the history of Wyoming corrections during a bachelor's degree. I started an external degree program there. I co founded a youth outreach group to, uh, reach out to the youth of Wyoming to tell them about the mistakes that we made. I brought private industry in, uh, which employed 100 inmates and I ran that thing. So I did all these unique things that any one of them, uh, probably should have gotten me out. Then I had all this support. And I, Steve thought I was going to get a commutation and I got the no in the mail and I said, there's nothing else I can do. I mean, I've done all these things. I have all this support and I realized it was, it was hopeless. So right about that time, there was a guy, uh, there'd been a bully in our block. He, uh, he was hooked up with the gangs. They transferred us out of state. Wyoming was overcrowded. And in fact, I did time in Oklahoma, Virginia, Nevada, Texas, uh, And eventually brought us back in 2010, but this guy was being a bully on our block and he was hooked up with one of the big gangs down in Nevada. And so, the Wyoming inmates, there was only 200 of us down there in a prison at 2400, or there was 100 of us. And they were afraid of the gangs and because of his association, they let him get away with stuff. He was going into cells and stealing stuff. He beat up people if he didn't like their crimes. He was a bully. Well, he'd made what I thought was a pass at my selling. I sell it. It was a 17 year old kid. He came up and stroked him on his face and I'd had enough. And this was right after I got turned down for the commutation. And I stepped out in the middle of the block and I called him out. And I called him a punk, and I screamed it in his face, hoping he'd do something. And I, the whole block's watching. And I called him a punk four or five times. And all of a sudden I said, what am I doing? I don't want to fight this guy. It wasn't that I was afraid of him, it's just, I had, when we're angry, this anger will come out a lot of places. Not necessarily at the source that's creating it. And, and my anger was at not getting that commutation. And this despair had set in. So I turned around to let it go and he kicked me in the back of the head. So then I didn't have any choice but to fight. And all I did is wrestle him down. I didn't hurt him. And, uh, I was under the gun there in, uh, Nevada. The guards have permission to shoot you first and ask questions later. They use live rounds, shotguns. And I was lucky because a guard didn't, didn't kill me or shoot me. So we went to the hall and I'm in the hall and they had the air conditioning on full, I'm in shorts and a t shirt and it couldn't be any warmer than 50 degrees in that. So I've never been as cold in my life. And all of a sudden I came to the end of myself. I said, I realized, no, it doesn't matter how many degrees I get, how much industry I bring in, how many prosecutors and judge back my clay. How many, whether Steve support, it doesn't matter. Uh, And I went to my knees and I said, I can't work myself out of this thing. The Bible tells us we, we can't get to heaven by works and same thing. I couldn't get out of prison by works. And I asked Jesus into my life. At that moment, there was nobody in that cell, but all these people have planted seeds over the years. My grandma had written letters. Steve had asked me many, many times, his wife had, Christians had, I want to share with your listeners at this point. Share the gospel, and if people politely rebuff you or strongly rebuff you, it doesn't mean that you didn't plant a seed. When I was in that whole cell, and there was nobody around, all those seeds, uh, came to bloom, and they blossomed. And so, just because someone says no now doesn't mean that that seed wasn't planted. And so I've accepted Christ in 2004, in the hole in Nevada. My life has been irrevocably changed for the better and I didn't get out. Oh, there's Steve smiling

1:05:41

Uh,

Mark: 1:05:42

um, I didn't get

Omar: 1:05:45

out. How, how long had you been incarcerated in 2004?

Mark: 1:05:49

Um, I went two. Two, so that would've been 22 years. Yeah. So, but I, I didn't get out for another almost 20 years. Just'cause I accepted Jesus didn't mean I got out. In fact, I think God left me in prison for a reason. Because in prison, I had plenty of time to read the Bible, plenty of time to get closer to him, go to worship services, um, share the Bible and share the gospel with others. And that wouldn't have happened. I think if I, God had let me out within the first few years, I would have turned my back on him. He knew that I needed that time. So he would leave me in another couple of decades.

Omar: 1:06:32

All right. Is there anything you want to say, uh, Steve, during this time that while he's still, uh, uh, incarcerated and then we'll get to eventually how he gets out and then what happened there?

1:06:40

You know, just I stayed at it. Um, and I would encourage people don't ever give up. Keep praying, keep witnessing. Um, you know, not, not at all. Everybody is going to be as hard headed as Mark and take 22 years. But just. Because it does take 22 years..Don't ever give up

Omar: 1:07:02

you. I want to ask you this. I know he mentioned something that you will go in there and visit him with your wife and your kids. Uh, what was your wife and kids perspective? Like, uh, seeing the man that had a shot you and I know he mentioned that you still had a long term, uh, effects of the shooting, you know, that you still battle to recently so what was their mindset as they're going in to see him? Um,

1:07:24

My wife, my wife was a Christian and she had never harbored the anger and bitterness that I did and my kids None of them had been born yet. They were all born afterwards So they they had never known anything different than their dad being friends with the man who shot him

Omar: 1:07:45

And what a testimony man, that's that's that's incredible I want to get to the point where you go ahead. Go ahead. Mark. You want to share some?

Mark: 1:07:53

Yeah, I want to add something because of steve's and marianne's love towards me They're kids we pick things up from our parents or from our friend our environment So their kids learned that they saw this love. So the animosity wasn't there. Steve is be a better one to respond on something. One of his daughters, we were up at the auto farm and I was pushing his kids on the swing. And one of his daughters asked me why I shot Steve. And you don't think that was hard. Okay. Uh, do you remember that Steve?

Steve: 1:08:23

I don't think she asked you

1:08:25

why. I think she asked you if you were the guy that killed her daddy, because she was only like four years old, you know, and she didn't, you know, killed and shot, um, you know, kind of went together. Um, and, and if I remember right, you gave me a really sick look and, uh, um, and I went, well, it's an honest question answer. And, and you said something like, well, I didn't kill your daddy, but I did shoot him and hurt him very badly.

Mark: 1:08:58

And I think I said I was a bad man or something like that too. Yeah.

1:09:03

Yeah. I think he did too. Yeah. And then, and then we had a barbecue.

Steve: 1:09:10

That's

1:09:10

true.

Omar: 1:09:11

Okay. Uh,

Mark: 1:09:15

next question, Omar.

Omar: 1:09:16

No, I want to get to the point where eventually you get out, you know, like maybe what year and how long had you been incarcerated at that point? When you finally get released?

1:09:24

Let me, let me start off with this. Okay. Um, I started attending Mark's parole hearings. Um, I don't know, 1985 or 86. I, I, the, um, I think it was like an 84. Maybe 85. I asked him if he wanted me to come to his parole hearing, and he said, No, I do not want you to. I don't want anybody to think I'm using you to get out. And so I honored his wishes. I didn't go for a couple years, and then I asked him again, and he said no and I said, You know, you don't have a right. To tell me no, uh, if I want to come, I can't, I can and I will come. Um, and, uh, and so maybe it was 86, 87. I started attending his parole hearings. Um, the very first one was kind of funny because I didn't know what to say. And, uh, so I went in there and I sat down and the parole board said, well, Mr. Watt, what do you have to say? And I said, Um, you guys know Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. And, and the look on the parole board's face was like, holy moles, what is this? Um, and so then I shared the gospel with him real quickly and, uh, I, and Mark kind of had a funny look on his face too,'cause he thought I was gonna speak on his behalf, but I didn't speak on his behalf the first, um, the first time, um, the second time, um, I didn't speak on his behalf. I didn't ask him to. To release him, I said, you know, whatever you guys do is fine with me, whether you keep him in or releasing, that's fine. And then, um, then the next time next parole hearing, I was, I was driving to the parole hearing. And, uh, God asked me, are you his friend? And I said, yes, you know, I am Lord. And he said, no, are you his friend? And I said, yes, you know it. And he goes, how come you won't speak for him? Just as my son will speak for you. And I went, uh oh. And so then, from then on, I asked. Every parole hearing that I attended, uh, for them to release Mark, I wrote letters to every governor. Um, I spoke to 3 different personally, uh, about. I'm releasing him and they all just kind of, uh, she nodded their hand and went, yeah, yeah, this is nice. Uh, you know, um, we're not going to let him out till I reached the point where I, I just, I, I basically gave up, um, and I never attended another parole hearing, um, but Mark had some other people who gotten on the, on the train and we're speaking on his behalf and helping.

Steve: 1:12:25

All right, Mark.

Mark: 1:12:25

Can I say something, Omar? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Thank you. Steve went to 16 parole board hearings asking for my release. And that a lot of times you had to travel great distances, sometimes misfunctions with families, uh, with his family. Uh, he wrote parole board members at least 16 times. Like he said, he met with three different governors personally asking for it. So you couldn't have asked for a stronger advocate. And there was a point where he felt like nobody was listening to him. He's the victim and he should have some say. And nobody cared what he had to say. So there was a point where, um, he backed off a little bit. And as Steve was saying, some other people stepped into my life and there were some people with some political influence that stepped in. One was a former governor. One was a guy that, uh, uh, and ran for governor that Steve knows on the Republican party. And the two of them went to the current governor and, uh, Asked for my release. Uh, and they pointed out all the support I had, the prosecutor, the judge, the victim, arresting officer, et cetera. It still took a while for the, the governor to come around. And then before he would decide to let me out, he called Steve twice. Steve, would you like to talk about those phone calls?

1:13:47

Yeah, he called me twice and he said, I won't make, I won't make a decision until I talk to you and, and. Find out what you have to say. And I told him, I said, you know, I said, when is enough? When, when's enough time served? I mean, he's been in there for 40 years. Um, and, and I hold nothing against him. Um, we're good friends. Uh, I support him and, uh, and so then the governor hung up and he called me back. I don't know, six months later. And he says, I just want to make positive. Sure that that's what you want. And I said, turning loose.

Omar: 1:14:27

Can you take us to that day? Oh, Mark, how did you get the news that they were going to find the

Mark: 1:14:34

free?

Omar: 1:14:34

Okay.

Mark: 1:14:34

So it was a gradual process. Actually, the governor came out and met me in prison and that's, I've been all the time I've been in prison. I've never seen a Wyoming governor come. And he just came to see me and, uh, he still wanted to make sure he wasn't going to release somebody that was going to hurt. I mean, I shot a policeman. And so he spent about an hour and a half talking to me and it was a good conversation. And then he signed a commutation for, it was just a few years, which made me eligible for parole. And then they paroled me to a work release center, which means I didn't go straight to the streets. I went to a very, very structured facility where you could only take. Like five passes a week for two hours at a time in addition to your job So I didn't get out much for that first seven months and then in october of this year this last year Uh, I finally got done with that work release center at the voa and i'm now at a halfway house And that's out of choice. I could have my own appointment apartment, but i've chosen this and uh, So my real freedom came when I came to this this place You Where I'm at now is Second Chance Ministries. And I there's been a great deal of support in this community for me. Uh, and that's another story itself. But before we end this Uh podcast I want to tell your viewers that there was 12 prophecies spoken in my life And the entire time I was in prison I don't know any other inmates where it was prophesized that they would come out. Um, one inmate came up to me three years before I came out and I did not, uh, spend a lot of time with this inmate. He knew who I was. I knew who he was, later would become friends. And he said, I had a dream about you last night. And, uh, Ms. Tuttle, she's the third in command of the prison. She walked in with clothes in her hand, street clothes. She walks into the block and she says to Ascension, Gonzalez, ch, she says, where's, where's Farham? Where's Blakeman? And he looks up at the top tier and I'm standing in front of cell two 10 and Blake Man's down three. Three cells and he's in front of two 13. And he looks at her and sees the clothes. He says, where's mine? He wants to go home too. Well, the dream ends. So I told, uh, Chone, I said, I want you to write down everything because we lose the details with time. And I want you to go to church and tell them about this before it happens, because people believe when you tell them before prophecy, when you tell them after it doesn't carry the weight. So he came to church. He told everybody, I got a Christmas card from a Ford, former warden. It was a friend of mine. And he talked about having some dreams about prisoners, including me, and he talked about my walking up his front sidewalk as a free man. And by the way, that prophecy came true. Um, just this last June, I walked up his front sidewalk. He has passed away, didn't get to see me make it out, but his wife was there and I went to visit his widow. Um, I had another friend, uh, or not a friend, I would say a guy I knew well. It was sitting at a desk with a computer, and I walked up in this dream and handed him a roll of 100 bills. Uh, and he says, what, what, what's this? And I said, I'm leaving. I don't need these. So I handed him the 100 bills, and he knows he can't use these in the canteen. And so he doesn't know what to do with them. To me, the symbolization was, when we leave prison, we always give stuff away from ourselves to the guys that are staying. And that's what this, I'm giving away what I got, and I'm telling them I'm leaving. Well, these are three of the prophecies. There was nine more. There was 12 prophecies over the course of three years, including, uh, I went into, uh, a church service one time and the preacher got up and he said in front of 40 inmates, Mark, you're coming out. You're giving your testimony. And, uh, he didn't say it's any other 39. So there was, there were 12 of these in three years. And so God was speaking into my life. I think it was to encourage me. not to lose hope. I've been had so many recommendations and, uh, it was also, I think, to encourage others. So I wanted to share the prophecies that came true.

Omar: 1:19:00

Thanks for sharing and you're correct. You know, a lot of times it's not just for us, but those around, you know, they, you come home. So, okay. So it finally goes through. Can you take us, how did it feel to finally, you know, step, step out? I know you said work release, but did you feel that freedom then? Or did you feel it once you finally, I guess, got to where you're at now in the house? I

Mark: 1:19:23

felt that there was a gradual, um, there was gradual, uh, freedom, small freedoms. I could. I can remember, uh, I was standing outside Walmart. I'd been out for three weeks and it was seven o'clock at night. And I'd never seen, I hadn't been out at seven o'clock at night and seen the stars in 25 years. And I had grapes in my hand. I went in and bought two pounds of grapes because you know in prison, the most they give you is four or five grapes, ten grapes because they're expensive. So here I can eat all the grapes I want. I can stand out and look at the stars. And I thought to myself, could life get any better? And uh, I got a call on my cell phone. And it was another inmate that had gotten out a year and a half earlier, and he said, you see that picture of that car on your cell phone? I said, yeah. He says, I hope you like it. He said, I bought it for you today. It's taken 2, 500 out of his pocket and bought me a car so I could get on my feet. And there was a number of stories like that where Christians had stepped into my life to help me make it when I got out. And I'm still, every day for me is a I work out at a mine. It's 53 miles from town. And I have this wonderful drive every day today. I saw 3000 head of buffalo on highway 59. I saw a badger Uh the other day Well two days ago. I went out my back door and I looked at a hawk. It was 30 feet away perched on a light, uh eating a And I, I see foxes. I see eagles. I, I see elk all the time, antelope beyond number every day, mule deer. So life is just a joy and it's, it's, it's not about the million dollar homes or the fancy cars. It's the little things. Life is good. It's a blessing.

Omar: 1:21:19

I praise God for that. Steve, anything you want to share? Like.

1:21:23

Yep, one last, one last thing for me, uh, this weekend, Mark and I are going back to the scene of the shooting. Um, we are meeting with some filmmakers that are, um, wanting to, uh, film a, uh, drama documentary type, um, film. And so, um, pray for us, pray this weekend goes good and, uh. You know, this, uh, this film venture, uh, comes to past and, uh, blesses a lot of people.

Omar: 1:22:03

Man, definitely. I would definitely be praying for that and I can't wait to see that. I mean, just by you guys sharing your testimony, I mean, sharing both perspectives and how God, you know, made everything come together. It's amazing. So I can't wait to see that. And definitely when you guys, you know, once they release it. Uh, you know, send me a link and I'll definitely like post it with along with this, uh, interview that we did, you know But man, thank you guys for for sharing your story, man. It's amazing how you know one Event, you know like one dark event Could eventually, you know, you can like the light in it and God's hand. All in it

1:22:41

wants, wants things, uh, to be bad and wicked and evil. And if we just, if we just trust Christ, turn it over to Christ, man, look at all the good things that happen.

Omar: 1:22:54

Yes. Amen. No, yeah,

Mark: 1:22:56

yeah. Yes, go ahead. Yeah. You were, you were, you just brought a scripture to mind and we were talking about an evil moment when dark and we know that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose. God doesn't cause evil. We do. Uh, it's our sin. But He can take things that, uh, Satan and us, for evil, and out of them comes some good. Uh, from Steve's testimony of forgiving me, Uh, there have been many people that have been able to forgive loved ones and other people that they couldn't forgive before because they saw After all the great harm I did to Steve, if he could forgive me, then they could forgive the things that had been done against them. So God is using this moment, this terrible, negative, this evil moment and bringing good out of it.

1:23:47

Yeah. All the glory to Christ.

Omar: 1:23:50

Yes. Amen. And people need to hear this. That's why I can't wait to get this out there. People need to hear the power of forgiveness, you know. And it was more than just a forgiveness, you know, cause a lot of times they forgiveness is just telling somebody, Oh, you know, I forgive you for what you did. And that's it. But man, uh, Steve, man, you took it like above and beyond, like, even for you and your wife to go visit while you're still serving time, bringing your kids around them. I know you mentioned a part of the story where he's pushing your daughter in the swing. I mean, that's. That's above and beyond forgiveness, thank you, from my perspective, you know.

1:24:22

Yeah, you want to, you want to see something funny, you should have seen us all playing Duck, Duck, Goose.

Omar: 1:24:30

Only God, only God. You know what, I want to give you guys an opportunity, um, Uh, whoever wants to go first, but, uh, any final words, anything we didn't get a chance to, uh, talk about or anything that you just wanna share with the people that are gonna, uh, hear your story?

1:24:44

Yeah, I, I, I think I've covered everything.

Omar: 1:24:48

Okay. What about you? Uh, I have two.

Mark: 1:24:51

I, I've covered everything. It is just that, uh, there's power in this testimony. And I'm not taking it's not my testimony. Steve's testimony is their testimony. And it's not

1:25:03

my testimony. It's price testimony

Omar: 1:25:05

We need a hymn. Amen.

1:25:06

Yeah And and we could we could go on forever couldn't we mark we really could

Mark: 1:25:18

Um, I thank you both for making me part of this evening and uh, I want to Ask people to forgive. Uh, it'll be the best thing that ever happened to them. When you forgive, it's not for the person you're forgiving, it's for yourself. And so you can get back your life, get back control, and don't let the bitterness and the anger control your life. Yep, that's right.

Omar: 1:25:45

Thank you for sharing that. I want to usually I ask my guests to close out in a prayer. So I got to use. So I would like each one of you to say a closing prayer before we get ready to close this interview to end this interview. All

Steve: 1:25:59

right, I'll kick it off.

1:26:01

No, you got to kick it off. I get it. Just thank you for our salvation. Thank you for our Savior and thank you for this time and for forgiveness and for your love, your grace, your mercy.

Steve: 1:26:14

Amen.

Mark: 1:26:17

Thank you, Lord, for never giving up on me. Thank you, Lord, for putting it in Steve's heart, in the hearts of so many other people to step in my life and to continue to step in my life. Thank you for your kindness. Thank you for your grace and your unmerited favor. Um, thank you for when I'm ungrateful. Thank you for the moments that I forget to thank you. And please, please forgive me for being less than I could be in Jesus name. Amen.

Omar: 1:26:47

Amen. Amen, man. I just want to thank both of you brothers for, for coming on, for, for joining me. Uh, I'm just amazed at all. I call them divine connections. Like. God's just been putting people like in my path and stories. And I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm blessed to, to be able to, to, to listen to your story, uh, but I'm going to be even more blessed to be able to share it. Like you guys mentioned, people need to hear the power of forgiveness and what God could could do. Uh, so I'd like to thank once again, I'd like to thank my guests is Mark Corebett and Steve. Wow. For joining me, uh, different parts of the country, you know, already going on an hour and 28 minutes, but like they mentioned, we could have probably shared more, maybe one day we can have them back on and share with like, what's, what's new, maybe updates on the documentary and things that are going on in their life. Uh, but with that, we're going to get ready to wrap uh, Matthew four, 16 reads the people who sat in darkness have seen a great light and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned alongside my guests, Mark Corebett and Steve Watt. My name's Omar Calvillo and we are wrong too strong.