"The Rise & Fall of Basketball Star Maurice 'Kojak' Fuller"

This interview chronicles the life of Maurice 'Kojak' Fuller, a former high school basketball star from Anderson, Indiana. Kojak opens up about his upbringing in a close-knit community and the challenges of growing up without a stable father figure, which led him to seek solace in basketball. Despite his talent, he veered into a life of drugs and crime, resulting in imprisonment. During his time in prison, Kojak experienced a profound spiritual awakening that redirected his life towards faith and service. He established Money Ministries, dedicating himself to helping youth and ex-offenders overcome their challenges. His story is a powerful testament to resilience, redemption, and the transformative power of faith. Julio Mercado joins us as the guest-host for this impacting podcast interview.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kojak-fuller-71130517b/

https://www.facebook.com/moneyministries/

Transcript

0:15

From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago and from around the country. Some of them were gang members, drug dealers, incarcerated victims, and perpetrators of violence. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, Hope, faith and perseverance. These have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong.

Speaker 2: 0:58

To another episode of Wrong the Strong. My name is Julio Mercado. I'm going to be your guest host tonight. thank you for joining in tonight. We have, our brother Maurice Kodak Fuller with us tonight. Um, Maurice, for joining us tonight. We appreciate you being here, um, taking the time out, you know, to spread your word and we'll see you next time. And just let us know, you know, what's going on with you. How you doing tonight,

Speaker 3: 1:22

man? I'm good. I'm good, man. Thank you for having me on, man. Uh, I'm excited. I'm excited. And just to, just so you know, um, it's cold Jack is with the J. K. A k, right?

Speaker 2: 1:36

Not

Speaker 3: 1:37

that I kj. K. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, you good? You good? Good. Well, man, yeah, thanks for having me on, man. It's a pleasure, man. I'm excited. Heard some great things about you guys, man. Uh, what you guys are doing, man. I think it's wonderful, man, especially for the kingdom of God, man. So, yeah, man, I, I was excited, you know, just to know that this may be a possibility for me to, uh, come on and just, you know, share. Uh, man, just how good God has been, man, in my life.

Speaker 2: 2:09

Well, man, we're glad to have you on the wrong. The strong tonight, man. And, um, you want to tell us a little bit, a little bit about yourself, like, where you grew up at, maybe describe it, you know, where you're from and. You know what it was like growing up there is, you know, as a young him.

Speaker 3: 2:23

Absolutely, man. Born and raised in Anderson, Indiana. You know, small town in Indiana, man. It's like 20 minutes north from Indianapolis. Um, growing up, man. Great place, man. economically strong, had a couple of general motor plants here, man. Um, to where it was just really good, uh, man, very community oriented, uh, environment, man, family was strong together, man. It was, man, I had a childhood, you know, um, And it was wonderful, man, you know, for the most part, man, um, grew up in the, in the era, man, where individuals was very competitive doing everything. See, we stayed outside, you know, it was baseball, you know, basketball, football. I mean, man, we played everything, man, jumping ramps, you know, racing your bicycle, everything, man. It was just very competitive, man, uh, growing up, uh, in the era that I grew up, man. Uh, so man, I'm thankful, man. Not saying that, you know, uh, my upbringing was perfect. You know, but man, listen, man, it was, uh, I had a childhood, man, um, raised by a strong mother, man, strong woman, man. Uh, my pops, man, you know, he was just like hit and miss, you know? Uh, but the thing about it is, man, right now, me and my pops, we like that, man, because now I understand, you know, what it is, you know, the challenges of being a father, man. And so, man, yeah, you know, back then. Just didn't have, you know, uh, that father figure had a lot of my uncles and them, they were, you know, in my life, um, seen them because our family was always close, uh, neighborhood individuals, man, uh, plenty of them around mentors, but never has somebody to really say, you know, I'm a really walk with you because. I grew up knowing how to entertain, knowing how to play the role, smile on the outside, dying on the inside and nobody knew. Right. So, um, to say that I had that individual that I can keep it all the way 100 with. I didn't have somebody that I can be honest and say, man, I'm struggling here, man. I'm struggling there, man. What do I need to do? And so what I did was I used basketball, man. Uh, like I said, I played all, all different sports, man, baseball, football, and was pretty good in, in, in those sports. But I started getting more attention playing basketball. So what I did was I started using basketball as a defense mechanism. I thought to myself, if I become really good in basketball, then people will address me based off of what I do well and they won't investigate, you know, uh, that, that part of my life to where I didn't want people to know nothing about. So, you know, here it is playing basketball, man. And that's what people did. They did exactly what I set out for them to do, man, which was address me, uh, by what I did well, man. And that was basketball.

Speaker 2: 5:40

Like, did you have any like role models growing up? Like, you know, who were your role models at that time when you were, you know,

Speaker 3: 5:45

man, you know, um, it really wasn't, man, as an athlete, man, my role model, man, I mean, because I had a lot of older cousins, um, you know, Like I said, man, I come from a Anderson, Indiana, man, is very sports oriented, man. You had. Individuals that play sports, big time sports. You know, we had some NBA players come from, from, uh, this small town, man. Um, but for, for me to say, man, did I have a mentor, somebody that I wanted to be like, man, there was one, there was one individual, man. He was my favorite basketball player. Uh, his name was Mylon Stubblefield. He was short like me and man, he just had a, a big man. presence on the court, man. But, uh, to say, did I have anybody walking me through life, dealing with life issues as a mentor, man, I didn't have that.

Speaker 4: 6:44

Okay. All right. So you just kind of just making your own way on, just trying to figure it out on your own.

Speaker 3: 6:50

Yeah, man, I did a lot of that. I did a lot of trying to figure it out on my own, especially when I started experiencing, you know, certain things in my life, you know, um, just thinking that nobody would understand. You know, uh, some of the things that I experienced, man. And so I felt like I was on an island. But like I said, you know, basketball was a way for me to escape, not have to deal with some of the issues that I was going through in life that gave me an opportunity to escape and really focus in on, you know, trying to be the best basketball player so I could cover up really. So

Speaker 2: 7:31

you say like. So you can you come from like the same era I did the outside era, you know, where we were actually outside. Like you said, day and night at the park. Yes, sir. You know, catch one catch all stuff like that, you know, actually outside playing kind of like, yeah, we're kind of like, you know, watching everybody's each other's kids and

Speaker 3: 7:53

absolutely, absolutely, man. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 7:56

that's a lost generation. That was a great generation. I feel like it made really like it made us independent if nothing else, you know,

Speaker 3: 8:03

man, listen, and that's why I say, man, I had a childhood, you know, because you look at a lot of youngsters now. Man, you know, they skipping that childhood and they going straight into, I want to be an adult. I have to grow up faster than what, you know. Uh, but man, I had a childhood like you saying brother, you know, man. Yeah. Being outside the neighbors had the, you know, had the Okay. The permission that if we got outta line to get us back in line. Absolutely. You know? Yeah. It was, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Yes. That's exactly how it was too.

Speaker 3: 8:36

Absolutely, man. Absolutely. So

Speaker 2: 8:38

how in school, like, so, um. You know, like, uh, tell me about your school years. Like, how was it? You know, how was that? How were you? Like, how were your grades? Like, you know, obviously they must have been okay because you was on the team, right? So, oh,

Speaker 3: 8:49

absolutely. So, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 8:51

What do you think kept you rooted like that? What do you think kept you so structured? Was it was like, hey, I got to keep up these grades so I could play ball or You know, what do you think?

Speaker 3: 9:00

Hey, I'm sitting here. I'm chuckling, right? Because you asked me that because I would love to say it was just basketball. But listen, man, I had, man, my mother, man, listen, I had one of the mamas, you know, she was very convincing, man, that I brought you to this world. I take you out, you know, listen, man, I ain't want no smoke. I ain't want to have to deal with my mom. Right. So man, I was one of them ones and she was real, you know, she was real strict and she made it known that, listen, you don't get these grades, you don't get to do nothing, no outside, no sports, no nothing. So it was like, man, I need to get these grades, you know, so I can be able to do those things, you know? Um, yeah, man. So she, she was very, she was very, you know. Listen, Adam, this is what we're going to do. You get them grades, then you can, you can have the freedom, you know, to do what you want to do when it comes to sports wise, man. So that was, and then, you know, when I started hearing these talks of going and playing college basketball, man, and, and starting to understand that you have to have a certain GPA, you know, so now I'm like, Oh, okay. Now school is starting to become serious to me. You know. But like I said, man, I just, I was mediocre in school, not because, um, that I struggled with learning. was just a simple fact that, you know, just dealing with life and trying to deal with life as a young man, you know, um, man, it just, I'm gonna do enough just to get by. You feel what I'm saying? Just enough to get by man. So I can keep doing what I was doing and that's playing basketball.

Speaker 2: 10:46

So how about in the house? Was there, you know, was there like any religion in the house and talk about God in the house?

Speaker 3: 10:52

Man, you know, you know what, man, and this is what, and I'm gonna say this, man, but I'm so, I'm thankful, man, that I didn't grow up in church. And, uh, and, and the reason why that is, man, is because after experiencing having a relationship with God, man, um, I just see how things are so systematic,

Speaker 5: 11:14

man,

Speaker 3: 11:15

you know, individuals know when to show up at church, they just know the church rhetoric, you know, they know the church behavior, you know? And so, man, I wasn't raised in church. My mama didn't make us go to church, but my grandma, she was the one that listened when she called, she like, looky here, this Sunday. They go into church, them boys going to church and man, listen, man, we had to go. So, you know, I would get up, man. Hey man, listen, the only thing that interests me about church was the drum. Listen, when they would praise and worship, man, I'm sitting there looking at the drummer and I'm like, that's the only thing that kept my attention, man. Because you know, I don't know how your experience is, man, but I mean, just understanding church now, you know, a lot of us, man, we struggle with evangelizing young people. So if we struggle with evangelizing young people now, you know, it was really, you know, uh, there was no way we was evangelizing young people, just really speaking over their head. I had no idea. what it was about or anything, man. uh, the only, uh, the only, uh, talks of Jesus Christ, man, it was through my grandma. God bless.

Speaker 2: 12:31

God bless. So, um, so what you started playing, what in like, in high school or like when you went to high school, did that have like your ball playing that have a bearing on like what school you went to, what high school you started off at, or did that really kick in towards college?

Speaker 3: 12:47

No, that really kicked in. Well, I mean, you know, in. In our, uh, city, we had three high schools, right? Uh, and all three of them was competitive. So whatever side of town you lived on pretty much that, you know, kind of filters, they had middle school. We had. Three middle schools, you know, um, South side went to Madison Heights. Highland went to, that was the East side. Highland went, I mean, East side went to Highland on the West side. They went to Anderson, Anderson high school. Uh, and so it would just matter what, you know, what's the town you live, what side of town you lived on and, and man, um, so as sports, you know, one thing about sports, every last one of them was competitive, so, you know, but you have more. Like Anderson High School, you know, it's like, man, the tradition at Anderson High School, it's like, man, I want to be an Indian. I want to go there. Right. So it's pretty much man, um, started playing when I started getting good, man, you know, high school coach who show up to the middle school games, showing interest. And then I had an older brother too, man. Uh, my big brother, man, he went to, matter of fact, he went to, uh, Highland and then he transferred to Anderson high school. And so, man, it was like, man, I'm following big bro. So man, and it worked out, you know, cause I wanted to be that, you know, I wanted to go there, um, and then my brother ended up going there, so I just followed his footsteps, man. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:21

Okay. Walk me through the college to the, so what did you got? You get drafted, like, you know, like get some scholars, man,

Speaker 3: 14:30

uh, high school, man, I'm gonna tell you, man, high school basketball here at Anderson, man, was, we have the second largest high school gym in the world,

Speaker 5: 14:39

man.

Speaker 3: 14:40

Uh, here. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was, man, listen brother, when I say Friday nights in this small town, fri the weekends. Going to a basketball game was highlight man. I mean, you got people coming from all over the country just to see, you know, the wig one, we had a pre-game show because our mascot was an Indian, so we were called Anderson Indians. Man. We did a, they did a, uh, a Indian dance with the, with the Indian.

Speaker 5: 15:09

Wow. Uh,

Speaker 3: 15:10

and then, uh, Indian Maiden. Listen, man, I'm telling you, I mean, off the charts, man, it was, and so people would come travel just to see that. So the atmosphere was electric, 9, 000, almost 10, 000 people in the high school gym. And I'm telling you, man, I mean, you, they were scalping tickets. To where listen, that's what I mean. Yeah, it was that big man. So, you know, um, coming from that type of environment, man, it was really big, man. It was really, really big. And so the thing about even going to that next level in college, man, I could have went to any school in the country except for Duke in North Carolina, right? I think they just didn't want me. You know what I'm saying? I just didn't mess her up. That was cool, man. Um, but the thing about it is, man, I had my first child at 15.

Speaker 4: 16:07

Oh, okay.

Speaker 3: 16:08

So, yeah, man. So, so here it is. I'm playing basketball, and that's why I was saying, you know, some of the things that I just didn't want people to know. So I wanted to make sure that They knew basketball so they wouldn't dig into what's going on with this young man, you know, uh, so when colleges got wind that I had kids that young man, they kind of, you know, they was backing off like, man, that's just, that's too much baggage, you know, for a young man or for them to invest. In a young man with, you know, those types of responsibilities, this young, you know, because, uh, a lot of people may not know. I mean, but we're finding out now that, you know, uh, college men is money. You know, when you talk about scholarships, you talk about spending money, you know, listen, I'm talking about giving you 50, 000 a year, scholarship, everything paid for that's money. So am I willing to invest? This money on this young man right here, you know, when he got other responsibilities that may take president over what we trying to do. So, a lot of colleges was backing off, man, you know, when they started hearing about me having kids. by the time I was a senior in high school, I had three kids.

Speaker 2: 17:26

Oh man, you're busy, huh? You're busy on and off.

Speaker 3: 17:31

Yeah, come on man.

Speaker 2: 17:33

On and off

Speaker 3: 17:33

the court, man. Busy, man.

Speaker 2: 17:36

Walk us through that. I mean, like, so, so now you're going to school full time. You got, you know, you got three kids. Are they living at home with you? You guys are, you know, at her house. Like, you know, what's the living situation like now?

Speaker 3: 17:47

No, I mean, I'm living with my mom still, you know, uh, I'm still in high school, very active in my kid's life, man. You know, um, always had, um, always been there, but I'm a young father. So I really don't know too much. I do know how to play with them. No, you know what I'm saying? It's been time. So, you know, that's pretty much what it was, man. I was always just present. You know, didn't really have anything to give them because all I really knew really was basketball and, and, and how to, you know, chase, chase, you know, young girls, you know, so that's pretty much all I knew myself, man. But, you know, one thing about that Julio broke is that, you know, individuals, when they started hearing about the kids, what they didn't understand was. I was setting myself up to for a great fall and, and, and I didn't notice at the time, you know, and, and I didn't have nobody to really pull me to the side and be like, Hey, listen, you know, let me help walk you through this because man, you're about to face a major hurdles in your life. And I had no idea because now I have kids, but I don't know what a father is though. I don't know what it is to go out and provide, you know, my mama, you know, she held down two jobs minimum. So, you know, she was working, but she's a female. I'm talking about to had that male presence to go out and listen, this is how you go out. This is how you establish financial stability for you. I didn't have that, you know? And so naturally what kids do is they Man, I look and I see what everybody else doing. So I just followed the crowd. You know what I'm saying? And, and so that's exactly what I started doing, man. So I started gambling, you know, trying to get a little money to, to kind of help support my kids and whatnot and do, but I ain't gonna say to help support, but I was doing that right. Um, next thing you know, then I graduated. Now I'm trying to hustle, sell little drugs here and there, but I'm playing basketball. So as I graduate. And now I'm the type of individual, man, I was experiencing some fame to some notoriety too. And I had no idea how to deal with this either. So maybe

Speaker 2: 20:07

I seen the articles, you know, you're on the news, everything like, you know, you were kind of the big deal over there for a while.

Speaker 3: 20:20

I was, man. I was. And I ain't know how to deal with that either. You know, nobody walked me through how to deal with being in the limelight. And so, man, I became addicted to that though. Because I'm going to the grocery store and I got kids, you know, I hear them talking to their parents. Mom, dad, that's him. And they would come up, man, I'm signing autographs in the, in the grocery store, man, just all around, man. And, and that became very addictive to me, you know, so, so that was my, if you, you know, for lack of words, my drug of choice, you know, man, that, yeah, yeah. So here it is now. Three kids, no clue what a father is. I'm trying to figure it out. Now, high school is over with. Now it's time for me to go to college. So I ended up going to this junior college. Down in Vincennes, Indiana. So the thing about it is though, I'm still, I'm still just lost, man. No clue, man. What, what to do. Um, and so I ended up, I've been coming back and forth to home, back and forth home because this is like two out, two and a half hours away from, from my hometown. So I was coming back and forth, like. On a regular, man. And, uh, next thing you know, I ended up catching a drug case. Um, and so, I ended up leaving. I ended up leaving Vincennes and going to another school in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, running from my legal issue. So, you know, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm running. I'm running from a lead.

Speaker 5: 22:04

No,

Speaker 3: 22:05

no, no. I'm out of here because my mindset is, well, if I'm back in school and I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, that that will just, you know, uh, cancel out what I did. Okay. You know, and so, but that wasn't the case, you know, wasn't really work like that, right? Right. But you couldn't have told me that though, Julio, because for the simple fact, I was thinking that because. I was playing good basketball and I was Mr. Basketball that certain things that I do, I may be able to get away with. They slapped me on my hand. Look, don't do that no more. You need to stop doing that. Get your life together. But it wasn't like that.

Speaker 2: 22:52

No,

Speaker 3: 22:53

no.

Speaker 2: 22:53

It seems like you had, you had like. Kind of had direction, but you were lacking much direction, like you kind of knew like, oh, yeah, I want to play ball, but it kind of like it kind of ended there. Like, you didn't have like your long term plan was kind of lacking right there. Like, you know, and it's just, you know, it sounds like, you know, kid, your age at that age, you know, I think we're all like that. So I could see where, you know, Where, you know, not having the role models, like you said, to tell you, Hey, this is what we do, you know, and not to take you through, you didn't have that, that male figure to take you through and walk you through it, you know, like, and we all right,

Speaker 3: 23:29

you

Speaker 2: 23:29

know,

Speaker 3: 23:30

absolutely, bro. That's the part you right, man. So it was like, man, I know what I wanted to do. But how do I do

Speaker 2: 23:40

it?

Speaker 3: 23:41

What's the process? What's the discipline that, that I have to apply and, and, and, and maintain in order for me to get there. I didn't have that.

Speaker 4: 23:50

You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: 23:51

So I often say this man, talent without wisdom becomes destructive. Uh, everything. Yeah. Talent without wisdom becomes destructive, man. And I had all the talent in the world, man, but I didn't have the wisdom.

Speaker 4: 24:08

Yeah,

Speaker 3: 24:08

I'm talking about the wisdom of God. How can I apply, you know, what I've been blessed with, man? How can I apply that to my life to where Uh, it'll be for my good, but for God's glory. So for me not to even have no understanding of God, I, man, you know, hey, this is, I'm on my own. I'm doing my own thing, you know, I built this. And so,

Speaker 2: 24:31

man, I was

Speaker 3: 24:32

just close.

Speaker 2: 24:33

So, so, all right, so you caught a case, right? You tried to just spin off on it and pretend like it didn't happen. So you're, now you're back. you're, you're even further south now at this time, right?

Speaker 3: 24:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:44

So I'm walking through that. So what's going on now? I mean, eventually they're going to come looking for you, right? I'm assuming

Speaker 3: 24:49

that absolutely because then what they did was, um, so we had a team lawyer that I told him about it and they call, he called up and try to, you know, kind of get it squared away. Well, once they found out where I was, then they immediately told them, listen, Okay. If he don't come home, then we're coming to get it. So I had to leave school and I had to leave school and come home, but I still didn't come home. See, I didn't come home. So I thought I had to get some money to have a lawyer. You know what I'm saying? Before I turned myself in. So now I'm out here. I'm still trying to hustle, man. So I didn't do nothing. Just make things worse, man. And, uh, and I ended up getting caught, man. Thanks, man. Glory be to God, man.

Speaker 2: 25:37

Walk us through that. Oh, break that

Speaker 3: 25:41

down. Yeah. As a matter of fact, man, it was on Thanksgiving night, man. You know, uh, at this time, man, I'm, I'm indulging in marijuana, a little bit of drinking, you know, but man, heavily smoking marijuana, man, smoking weed, man, uh, that, that became my cope, you know, my escape. through everything, man. And so, uh, I went out, man, to this club, man. And it was so, I know somebody had to call and tell him that I was in there because they walked right up to me, man, and just tapped me on my shoulder, man. It was just, this is like, come on, man. So, yeah, man. And that just started the legal that just started me going through. Now, this is what where I struggled at really was because when I made my mistake.

Speaker 2: 26:31

How old are you at this time? So the first drug case you're how old?

Speaker 3: 26:35

At this time, well, actually there was a, uh, it was like a little gun charge that I caught when I came home. That's when I caught the drug case.

Speaker: 26:47

Okay.

Speaker 3: 26:47

You know, that, that, that year that I came home and I was trying to make money. So I wouldn't, you know, so, uh, I would have some, you know, an advocate, a lawyer to help me deal with this issue. Right. And so that's why I say I just made things worse, man, compounded.

Speaker 2: 27:06

This time, like about, about

Speaker 3: 27:07

what, and I'm like, I'm like 20, like 21. Okay. So, yeah. So, so I'm like 21

Speaker 2: 27:14

club. They come, they tap you on and they take you in, take us from there,

Speaker 3: 27:21

man. And from there, that's when everybody became, everybody was in my business then because it was in every, uh, social media, every media outlet, man, on all of our news stations. You know, all around Indiana, man. Um, and then even in USA today, man, it was, I mean, it was really public, man. Um, so now I got to face not only what I did, man, but now I have to face the shame, um, that I brought on myself, on my family, uh, dealing with my kids too. Um, so yeah, man, that, that was real. I was really broke at that time, man. Um, to where now it's like, man, I want to change, but I don't know how. So now I'm at that point, you know, and I mean, how do I change, man? And my grandmother, man, that's why I'm so thankful for her because she, she never gave up. She would always tell me what I didn't want to hear. And that was that pain. Listen, baby, you need jeans. You need to stop doing what you're doing and you need Jesus. And I'm saying to myself, man, I ain't trying to hear that. I just came for a glass of water. You know what I'm saying? And. And so when I got caught, that's what was playing in my head because now I'm like, man, how do I change? I want to, but I don't know how. And so that's when I was like, man, I'm going to try this Jesus stuff.

Speaker 2: 28:50

And my prayer. You get booked. Are you in the county jail when you're, when you're thinking all of it? All right. So how's that going for you? Like, yeah,

Speaker 3: 29:01

man. So I'm gonna tell you, as a matter of fact, it was very interesting, man, how I got, uh, how I got arrested, man. Um, again, You know, uh, after that, you know, because when they tapped on my shoulder in the club, that was for really the gun charge. I didn't even know that I caught the drug charges. Oh,

Speaker: 29:25

wow. Okay.

Speaker 3: 29:26

Yeah. So I was just running from the gun charge. So they was going to deal with me on a gun. I had no idea I had, uh, the drug charge. So, uh, I'm hanging, I'm playing in the, in the basketball league. At this point we about to play the city police. And so, you know, when you out there in the streets, you know, everybody is, you know, hate the police. You know, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We wanna slaughter them, right? And so I'm like, I'm about to go for 50 on them, you know, I'm about to get 50 points on them. So we get there and, and we're playing and we're, I mean, destroying them, man. And I'm laughing at'em. And, and because it's so easy for me, right? But I'm not understanding why they're laughing as well, man. They laughing like they know something. I had a nice, uh, Figaro, uh, rope on my neck. You know, and they like, man, where'd you get that? Where'd you get that necklace from? And I bet they cost a lot of money. I'm not knowing though, you know, I'm not knowing what they know. They're throwing

Speaker 2: 30:33

shots. They're throwing shots. Yeah. You don't know what they're shooting yet. Okay.

Speaker 3: 30:37

Absolutely. Absolutely. So The guy that I rolled to the game with, he ended up being my pastor too, after I got out of prison for some time, man. But, uh, he was just telling me on the way to the game, how he was hustling, how he was making money. Well, I heard that they, uh, indictments were out and they were serving indictments. So I was saying, man, I'm done. I'm not about to be doing none of this. Cause I don't want to get caught up on an indictment. So, uh, went to the game, we was blowing them out. They let me leave and we pulled up to a gas station and there was a sheriff that pulled up and, and he like blocked, got in front of the car that we was in. I'm in the passenger seat and he gets out and I hear him on his, on his, uh, radio saying, yeah, I have Kojak right here. So in my mind, I'm like, wait a minute. Now I'm replaying stuff. You know how you like, man, okay. Yeah, I'm going back and I'm reliving everything, man. Like I ain't been doing none. I got paid my child support, not knowing that they had already had me on two, on two, um, drug, uh, sales, you know, not even knowing that man and everybody that we just got done playing with, they came down, man. And do serve me those warrants. He served me the warrants, man. I'm about fainted. I'm about fainted because I had a class a felony dealing within a thousand feet of a school.

Speaker 2: 32:14

Oh man.

Speaker 3: 32:15

Yeah, man. So, so that's minimum 20 years. Oh man. I mean, I literally about fainted, man. And so that's when. I'm at the point to where I want to change man, but I just don't know how

Speaker 2: 32:30

did they take you into custody at that point.

Speaker 3: 32:32

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 32:36

You get to the, you get to the county jail now what you're booked. You ain't going nowhere. You got bond, no bond. What's going on with that? Like looking at that point,

Speaker 3: 32:46

actually I did have a bond, but the only person that was going to bond me out was, was, was my guy, my big brother that I had met in college. Who, uh, who was also, you know, uh, doing his thing, man, big time hustler. And he never wanted me to do sale, no drugs. He always told me, man, listen, I'll take care of you because he always looked at it, like if I make it, then he ain't gonna have to do what he did. You know, but unbeknownst to him. The more that I'm around him, the more I'm like, man, listen, I want this too. I want to be my own man. I want to take care of my own kid. I don't want you taking care of me. You know, this is what's going on in my head.

Speaker 4: 33:35

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:36

Yeah. So as I'm locked up, man, I couldn't get in touch with him at first, man. God is so strategic, man. I couldn't get in touch with him, man. It was like, man. So now I'm going on two weeks in there. And it's like a hundred thousand dollar bond. Now I need to go to get a bond reduction and I'm sitting there and I'm just like, man, I don't know what's going on on what to do. And I'm just lost. You know what I'm saying? Uh, but it was like, it was almost like. Man, I'm glad I always knew brother Julio. I always knew man, the things that I was doing, that it wasn't me.

Speaker 2: 34:23

I would be saying to my son, huh? Your grandmother told you that man, listen, man, prayers

Speaker 3: 34:31

and all that, you knew, man, but I always knew I'd be like, man, like I was better than what I was doing, man. I was better than how I was living, man. But I was so caught up in front, you know, uh, for everybody, man. I was so caught up in front, man, that I ignored it. But when I got in there, man, it was almost like, man, now I ain't got the front no more. You know, I ain't got the high no more, but what do I do? And that's when I, that's when I, uh, gave my life to Christ, man. But what was so, what's so interesting is this, man. I sat there in my prayer to God though, because this is what I prayed to him. Didn't nobody lead me to Christ, man. This is how I accepted it. I was like, man, you know, God, I don't know you, but I want to know you, but I want to know you like nobody else do. I heard about you, but I ain't never seen you though. See, I want to see you though. And I said, man, listen, I'm gonna go all the way with you. Because if this stuff ain't real, I'm gonna tell everybody, man, this stuff fake. I said, man, you can have my life. That's, hey, listen, that was my prayer. My salvation prayer, right there. That was it, man. And, and what was so crazy, man, was God did a quick work. I didn't understand what he was doing. Uh, man, my, my love for the word of God was But he knew what he had to do because I was so wounded because I was, I was a man of, of, of, of great social status, athletic status to where a lot of people knew me, you know, uh, being Mr. Basketball, that's the best basketball player in Indiana. And so a lot of people knew me. So then when everybody found out that I made the mistake. Now, I don't have nobody singing those praises no more. You know, the very thing that I told you I was addicted to, I ain't have that no more.

Speaker: 36:34

Wasn't

Speaker 3: 36:34

no more, hey, I love you Kojak, wasn't no more all you all that on the basketball court. See, wasn't no more none of that. Let me ask you

Speaker 2: 36:42

something. So, what'd you say? I said, let me ask you something. Did you feel like Like almost a sense of relief,

Speaker 3: 36:52

you know, I won't, I won't say relief what I'll say, because remember it was like withdrawals because that was my addiction. You know what I'm saying? That was my addiction. You know, I allowed the words of man to put me on such a pedestal to where, when I didn't have that no more, my fall was great, man, it was great. And I was damaged emotionally and mentally, man, because I didn't know what it was to be a man. I didn't know what it was to be a father. So I thought basketball was who I was. So when there was no more basketball, I'm really lost. And I'm addicted to, I'm addicted to the attention that basketball brought

Speaker 5: 37:36

me.

Speaker 3: 37:38

So here it is. I'm gonna try to find that attention in whatever Avenue I got to find it in. So if that's selling drugs and whatnot, to where I can be the man, then guess what, driving nice cars, having money, having the women or whatnot, then that's what I want to do. And so I don't have any of that. So now it's like I'm Jones in life. Man, what do I do, man? And I'm just like going through withdrawals, man. And, and, and there's nothing, there's nothing that can satisfy me at this point. And so it's like, when I gave my life to Christ, man, it blew me away because it was like, I wasn't Jones in no more. So now I'm like, man, wait a minute, man. Like what's, so now I'm just, I'm thrown off. Like, man, what is this man? And so. Man, he really increased my love for the word of God, man. I started reading, man, and my understanding of what I was reading, man, it was coming so fast to where I just wanted to share it with people, man. And there was one situation when I was incarcerated, man, uh, my lawyer, my court appointed lawyer, she was, uh, uh, Anderson Indian fame, the high school that I went to, she was a big fan, right? And man, she was so angry with me though. She was so, she was supposed to be defending me, but she was so angry because I had let everybody down. Oh, wow. To where, yeah man, to where it really affected how she, how she defended me, you know. And um, one day man, I woke up man and I felt like God was telling me, hey listen, I want you to ask the judge if you can go home. Now, I got 30 days before I go to trial. And, uh, I have been in there already for like September, October, November, December, January, February, six months. I've been, I've been incarcerated six months. Right. And so I just felt like God was telling me, you know, Hey, ask the judge, can you go home? So I asked my attorney, I said, Hey. Can you ask him, can I, because I got 30 days before I go to trial, I wanted to get home and talk to my kids and let them know what was about to happen. You know what I'm saying? To kind of give them some understanding. Hey, you know, man, I made a mistake. This is what's going on. This is what I may have to do, you know?

Speaker 2: 40:16

Okay, let's back up for a second. So, so you're going back and forth to court, right? So what are they talking about? Like they bringing you cop outs? You know, they, they, they try to get you to plead guilty. Like, what are they talking about giving you at this point? What are your options?

Speaker 3: 40:32

Man, listen, man, you know, that was another thing, another great blow, man, because they wasn't willing to work with me.

Speaker: 40:39

They

Speaker 3: 40:40

wasn't willing to drop, you know, to drop that, that real class a felony to a, to a class B because that class a felony back then is mandatory time. You have to, you have to do, uh, uh, some, some. Some type of DOC, you have to execute it DOC wise, right? So they didn't want to drop that. Had they dropped it, the judge that I had, they would have gave me probation, but they would not drop it. They wouldn't work with me. They said, listen. You got a class a and a class B. We're going to give you 20 years for the class B and we're going to get you 10 years. I mean, we're going to give you 20 years for the class. Hey, we're you 10 years for the class B.

Speaker 2: 41:24

Would that be a 50 percent or are you going to do the whole thing? 85? Yeah.

Speaker 3: 41:28

Yeah. Back then. Yeah. Back then that was, you know, two for one. So that was 50 percent of that. So that's 10 years minimum. But see 10 years, wait a minute. Man, individuals think you. Right,

Speaker 2: 41:43

right, right, right. It's not like, you know, Hey, you're gonna stay overnight, like talking about right here, you know?

Speaker 3: 41:50

Man, come on, man. Yeah. And so I'm listening to. And I don't know if you've been there before, but then, you know, you get a lot of individuals incarcerated talking, Hey man, all this is what they going to do. You know, everybody know everybody's a lawyer in jail and they going to tell you what they go, what's going to happen. That's it. You know what they did for one person. They go automatically do for you too. Right. So they telling me, Oh man, you dang, you ain't going to do no more than two years. They're just trying to keep up. Yeah, I can't even see myself doing two years. I'm like,

Speaker: 42:30

what, man,

Speaker 3: 42:32

listen, no, sir. So when they was talking about, okay, you got 20, you know, all together, they talking like a class a go from 20 to 50 years, and then the class B go from eight to 20 years. So they saying 70 years. I'm like, man, now, come on, man. You know, I mean, they just saying potentially that's what that could be. But because I don't know,

Speaker 2: 42:57

it's the max they could

Speaker 3: 42:58

get.

Speaker 2: 42:58

Right, right,

Speaker 3: 42:59

right. But I don't understand. I'm understanding 70 years. So they like, Hey, listen, this is what you do. We're not dropping anything. This is what you need to do. And it was really trying to get me to, you know, definitely work with them. Definitely. Hey, where was you getting your drugs from? And, and, and like I told him, I said, man, listen, y'all caught me. I take full responsibility for what I've done. And so that's what I'm gonna deal with, man. And, and that's how it went, man. But all alone, God working with me though. So you get, I get all of this, man. And I don't understand. Why I'm not just losing my mind because they talking about all this time. And I'm like, man, wait a minute, man. I was Mr. Basketball, like, and bro, give me a break or something. You know what I'm saying? Like, man, don't do me like that, you know? But the prosecutor is saying, Oh no, we going to really bust your head because you was trying to use that you to Mr. Basketball. And because of that, wasn't nobody going to do nothing to you. So he was making it seem like. That I was really just trying to use that, you know, uh, take advantage of that, you know,

Speaker: 44:19

yeah,

Speaker 3: 44:19

man. So he was adamant about, you know, Oh no, no, no. We don't make an example out of him. So any other athletes that's coming up that think that they could just get out here and sell drugs and do this. Man, we're going to make an example out of you and let them know that they can't do that. Wow. So it's like, Oh my God, man. So now dealing with that and my attorney, she even brought that up. They're not about to let you go home for the SIP. And she was like, and I'm, I definitely wouldn't even even ask for that because that's so much out of her character. And it's almost like I was asking her to, you know, Really like it was an insult for me to ask her to Judge, if I can go home and that's how she played it. Like, man, I'm not about to sit up here and insult, you know, my intelligence or, you know, my reputation. I'm not about to do that. That was an insult to me. And, uh, and I'm about not about, not about to tarnish that. Right. And so she said, I'm not asking the judge that. And man, what's so crazy is bro. When, when, when I, the night before man, when God was pressing in my spirit, Hey, I want you to ask the judge. If you can go home to talk to your kids. And I was like, man, I'm gonna ask. And so after I asked her to do it, she said, no. So the judge was like, Hey, Mr. Fuller, do you have anything you want to say? And man, listen, I was like, yeah, judge. I said, uh, Hey, I was just wanting to know if I can go home, you know, um, to kind of help prepare my keys for what I may have to do, you know, if I'm going to prison, man, I don't want them not knowing. What's going on and I want to be able to share, you know, and let them know what I did and different things and I just want to go home. It's like, yeah, I'll do that. I release you today, man. Listen, man, blew me away, bro. Everybody was blown away. I'm sure, man. The attorney was so upset and this was her, this was her main thing. That ain't never happened before. That ain't never happened before, but I'm sitting up here and I'm saying, but I serve, I serve, I serve a God who specializes in making history. You know what I'm saying? I was the first to do it, you know?

Speaker 5: 46:53

Yes.

Speaker 3: 46:54

Yeah, man. And so, um, that was unbelievable, man. It just blew me away. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. That, that blew me away, bro. So I did not go home. And I was able to talk to, you know, uh, some of my kids, two of my kids, their mom wouldn't let me see them because she was like, you're not about to do my babies like that coming to their life and then you about to leave again for some years. So they already hadn't seen you for six months. Let's just go ahead and keep it like that. So man, that was a struggle, man, for me, man. So I didn't get a chance to see them. Um, but my other ones I did now, now mind you now, this is the thing about this Julio, At this time, I have four kids and two on the way. Yeah. So while I'm incarcerated, I find out that I got two, that I got two. Yeah. They in the oven. You know what I'm saying? They in the oven, man. And I'm like, go Lee, man. So, uh, 30 days come, I ended up going to trial, um, and they find me guilty.

Speaker 2: 48:06

So when he released you, was it for the night or he just let you out like, you know, on your own recognizance till trial? Yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:12

Yeah. He, yeah, he let me out on my own recognizance. Yeah, he lemme go. Okay. Okay. I didn't have to pay no bond

Speaker 4: 48:19

and I had 30

Speaker 3: 48:20

days works. Yeah, he works. He works. Yeah. Yeah. And I was out for 30 days. Nice. For a month, you know? Yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 48:29

Was it like a house arrest or you was just you was out?

Speaker 3: 48:33

No, I was out, but I did have to go up and report like every week. Okay. I had to go up, I had to take a drug test, you know what I'm saying? Um, every week, any curfew or you know, I'm like, yeah, that's, say what?

Speaker 2: 48:47

You have any kind of a curfew or anything, or,

Speaker 3: 48:50

yeah. So it was on probation. Right. Okay. Yeah, it was so it was like I was always, you know, on probation, those stipulations go up there and see him. Uh, every Friday, uh, they take my, uh, my drug screen and I had to be in at a certain time. Absolutely, man. I think it was like 10 o'clock, you know, I had to be in. Um, but I didn't have no problem with that because see, now there's some things changing about me, you know? Um, yeah, man, there's some things, like I said, when God was doing a quick work, he was doing a quick work, man. And I didn't understand a lot of the things that I used to like to do. I wasn't doing no more. And it was like, now I wanted to focus in on doing better, man. You know, there was one reason, there was one thing, man, that really hit me when I was incarcerated and, and, and I really, really, that really sparked me wanting to change and really get better, my oldest child. My oldest daughter and my oldest son, I used to go eat lunch with them at their schools once a week, spaghetti day and chicken and noodles with the mashed potato day, you know, whichever one I'm going every week to eat lunch with them. Right. And, uh, man, big kid, like I said, man, I'm a big kid. So I would go to my daughter's school and mad kids. They just always want to, when a kid see a father come or a parent come to school to eat lunch, man, everybody want to sit with you and your child, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 50:32

It's not just. It's not just any daddy. It's Kojak, you know,

Speaker 3: 50:37

man, man, come on, man. And because, you know, that played a role in what I'm about to say, because after I got in trouble and it was all on the news, now them same kids came back to school and was, uh, teasing my daughter. I, my mom and daddy said, your daddy going to jail, man. My daughter had to leave school, man, because she was so distraught, man. Emotionally, man. And she was just like, why my daddy going to jail? You know, all she knew was that she seen her daddy all the time. They played all the time. He always came to school and ate lunch with him, you know, with her. And what my daddy do to where he going to jail, man. And so I was like, man, I ain't want that. I didn't want that for my babies, man. But, and, and that's why I was like, man, I want to change, but I just didn't know how, and that really sparked it, man. To where I was like, man, I want to do something different. Yeah. So, like I said, man, after God moved and did something that they normally don't do and they opened the door for me, man, and I was able to go home, uh, then I come back, um, I'm going through all the stipulations, drug testing, doing what I'm supposed to be doing, even when I'm home, I'm reading the word, man. And, and, and, and I'm not hanging out and I'm just. So now in my mind is I ain't going to prison. God opened them doors. I'm reading the word. I ain't going to prison, man. And, and I, and I went back and I went to trial and they found me guilty. They found me guilty, man. And uh, they ended up, uh, sentencing me. Sure did, man. And, and they gave me 20 years for that class A and 10 years, uh, for the Class B.

Speaker 2: 52:33

They did give it to you, huh?

Speaker 3: 52:34

Yeah, they did. They did, man. And uh,

Speaker 2: 52:38

that, you know, processing that, you know, you're in the courtroom, you know, you said at this time you thought you were going home like,

Speaker 3: 52:45

you know,

Speaker 2: 52:45

supposed to be doing I'm reading my scripture, you know, God's word and you're thinking, you know, you know, his plans always greater than ours. He always gives me

Speaker 5: 52:54

always

Speaker 2: 52:55

he answers prayer but. Very rarely in the way that we expect them to.

Speaker 3: 53:04

Let's see. Absolutely. I'm like, hey, I got you to switch the game. But wait a minute, man. This ain't going how I thought it was going to go, you know, see, I think that was the deal. That I think I made with God. Well, God, look, I'm gonna follow you, but it got to be on my terms. You know what I'm saying? Like

Speaker 5: 53:23

that,

Speaker 3: 53:24

right? It don't, no, it don't. It don't, bro. It don't. But yeah, man, that was, so, that was, that was, uh, the time where I went back. But this is what I said though to myself, man. I was like. If I go to prison is because God is wanting, wanting to teach me something, or he's wanting me to teach somebody something that was my mindset, right? Um, still dealing with the fear of going into the unknown. I ain't never been in this situation before. And it's like some of the things that I've done when I was out here in the streets and pretending like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a street guy. You know what I'm saying? I'm out here. I'm hustling and I'm pretending. And so I'm doing some things, did some things to some people, man, that, you know, to where I don't know if some of them people is, is in this prison. Yeah. So, so I, I have no idea. And so it wasn't until now I'm on that bus ride,

Speaker 2: 54:33

man,

Speaker 3: 54:36

you guilty.

Speaker 2: 54:39

So, you know, you, you're looking at, you know, 50%, but of 30 years. So you're looking at 15 years, right? So did they run it wild or did they run them together?

Speaker 3: 54:50

No, no. They ran it together, but they suspended the class B. So that was just strictly probation. Okay. So you're looking at

Speaker 2: 54:57

20 now.

Speaker 3: 54:58

Yeah. I'm looking at 20.

Speaker 2: 54:59

So you're looking at at least 10,

Speaker 3: 55:02

at least 10.

Speaker 2: 55:03

Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah. If you go on a blue bird now, you're You're headed to your, your new address for the next, you know, probably decade.

Speaker 3: 55:12

Yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 55:13

What's it, how, how, what's going through your head? I know that there's gotta be a dark time for you. Like you said, the unknown is, you know, anxiety of, you know, like I'm going to this place. I don't know what's going to happen there. Who's going to prepare, you know, what are they going to do to me? I don't know what's going to happen here. You know, like, like at this time, are you like, Are you just trusting in God? Are you calling out? Are you confused now? Like,

Speaker 3: 55:38

man, listen, a whole lot of that going on, man, because you know, going into that atmosphere, it's almost like you got to, you know, shut off, you know, and then start on a whole, whole different persona, whole different individual, because now you got to walk in. Now you survival mode, you know, man, listen, boy, say anything to me. I'm, I'm, I'm hitting him in his mouth. I got to get into that mode, you know, to where it's like, I need for them to know that you just can't punk me. Right. But see, with me, I was like, God, I don't want to be in that mode. So I'm sitting up here on the way and I'm like, man, God, I don't want to be in that mode. So man, I need you, man. And I'm talking to him like this. I'm like, man, God, you know, man, you know, I want to serve you, man. I don't know. And I ain't about to just let nobody do nothing to me. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, man, I need you to show up, you know, do what you did, you know, do what you always do, you know, and I'm reading the word and I'm saying, man, I want that favor that you had that you gave Joseph, you know what I'm saying? So these are some of the things that I'm talking about because I'm fearful. Because I don't know what I'm walking into. You know what I'm saying? You hear the stories and now them stories become my reality. And I'm like, man, listen, I ain't got to go off of what I heard no more. I'm about to face this. Yeah. I'm about to see this for myself. And man, I never forget, man, we, we walking in, man. And now you got, it was a couple of individuals with me. They went their way to their dorms. Now I got to walk on this big old yard. And I'm walking with my stuff, pushing this cart, man. And I'm sitting up there and I'm like, man, who's behind these doors, man. That really gripped me. Like who behind these doors that I may have to defend myself, man. And I don't know who, and to where I just say, you trust me, man. I don't care what, man, I'm gonna trust you because this is what I had in my The more that I submit to God, the less I'm gonna be impressed. That was my mindset. So, yeah, so, so I'm like, man, God, if I get out here and let you do what you do, I ain't going to be here long. So I'm not going to be playing. I'm going to get out here and I'm going to let you do what you do and let you work my life. So I'm going to get back home to my kids. And, and man, when I got there, man, I made sure I connected with the church. And of course, I seen plenty of individuals from Amherst, my hometown, you know, so I walk in and they, Oh man, Jack, you know, and they greeted me and, and, and this and that out the gate though, this is what I told them. Because they got the mindset. Are we about to run this? I said, listen, man, if it ain't about Jesus Christ, don't call me, man. I ain't clicked up. Ain't no hometown. No, none of that, man. I'm trying to get out of here. I'm not trying to get comfortable here. I'm going home, man. And so if it ain't, man, don't call me. Matter of fact, who, where, how can I get into the church? And one of my big homies, he pointed me to an individual, man, who's my big brother, even to the day, man, named Alonzo Smith, man. And, uh, he connected me with him. I was, and I rolled out with him from that time on, man.

Speaker 2: 59:22

Yeah. Let me ask you something. So, so you get in here now, now, now you're following your faith. Like you profess your faith. You know, you let everybody know, you know, I'm walking with Christ. I'm carrying my cross. You know, what is your family saying? You know, the people back home, like, you know, like your baby mothers and, you know, like the grandmother, your mom, just the people that know, you know, they know the old Kojak, you know what I'm saying? Like, what are they saying? How are they, you know, are they, are they taking this? Like, you know, is this just jail talk or is this, you know,

Speaker 3: 59:53

Hey, well, you already know society. You know, everybody like, Oh man, he didn't got there. He didn't did what? Cause I had older cousins before me that didn't win. I'm not saying, you know, they claim in Christ and talking about, I changed it. But I said, I told my grandmother, man, and my grandmother, she knew she was like, yeah, and I would always speak it to her, man. And my grandmother knew. I didn't do a lot of telling people though. I didn't do a lot of anybody else, uh, because they started to see some of the things when I was in jail. And so, you know, when I got to prison, it didn't change, you know, so I'm still walking this thing out now. There's individuals in prison that they done heard about me, especially now they want, they want to challenge me. On the basketball court. So, you know, and then some individuals just like, oh, well, yeah, you know, yeah, we heard about you, you know, and this and that, but it wasn't until then where I really had to really walk this thing out talking about, man, I love Jesus Christ because the last time some of my hometown seen me, I wasn't talking about Jesus. You know what I'm saying? I'm in the world. So, As a matter of fact, because I'm sitting up here and I'm false flagging, I want to be a part of Gangsta Disciple and I'm just doing what they do, but that really wasn't me. So, I seen an individual in there that pretty much brought Gangsta Disciple, he was from Chicago, he brought it to Anderson. So when he seen me, he was like, Oh, little folk. And so when I seen him, but I made up in my mind. So I was like, man, I ain't, I ain't that. I ain't none of that. So when we went to shake up and I did him like that, I said, man, I'm gonna change man. And he looked at that. It's a big old dude, too. He looked at And he said that, and I was like, bless the Lord.

Speaker: 1:02:10

Praise God, I know your heart. I

Speaker 3: 1:02:13

said, boy, glory be to God. I said, boy, God, you called. Well, you know, but that was just a part of. Me walking it out in front of individuals that knew me one way. And now I'm professing something different, man. So yeah, man. So in prison, it was so wild, man, because I experienced that Joseph effect. So, you know, now I'm at a level three, so I do what I'm supposed to do. My levels drop. They send me to another facility. This is where I met brother Daniel, Pastor Daniel. This is where I met him at. I am in county, man. So I go there soon as I go there, man, it's, it's, it just blows me away. They're the number system on how the beds go. The odds, the odd number one Oh one. Those are the lower bunk, right? The even numbers are the top bunks. The top beds, right? So when I go in, everybody want a bottom bunk. Everybody want that bottom bed, right? Some people, so when I go in, yeah, come on, man. By any means necessary, by any means, So you right? So when I go in, dude, already in there, he's sitting on the bottom bunk. So naturally I'm like, ah, because I don't know the number system. But actually the number that was, my number was the bottom bunk, but I don't know this. So when I'm in there, so now this young dude, this dude in here, he got like 29 days left to go home. He's smoking weed, smoking tobacco. He got it all in the room, right? And I'm, I got to sit there and deal with this. So I'm out, I'm out in, uh, in the common area and I'm playing chess a couple of weeks ago by playing chess. The, uh, the CEOs, they run in and, and, and check the room and they find, they find the contraband, the marijuana and the tobacco. Now I'm sitting there and I'm like, man, dude, he, he hit, you know, he didn't got hit now he, and he about to go home to your bed though. Come on now. Come on, bro. But guess what? I still don't know this though. So one of the big homies. You know, he his ears to the ground. He know everything that's going on in you know, in the penitentiary. I'm new to that. I don't know what's going on really. So he get word that I got that right up. So he came to me. He was like a man. You need to go check, man. I think they gave you that write up. Well, you know, if you get that class A, that class A write up, then that's a whole nother year off of your sentence. They take a whole year from you. Good time. And so, I just so happened to go in there and check, man. And you sure right. He was like, man, it ain't mine, so they gave it to whoever bunk that was. And yeah, and so that they gave it to me, man. So I was encouraged to jump on man. You need to whoop him, man. Y'all need to go bump, you know, you let him do that. And so response was, man, I'm letting God deal with that. That's exactly what I see, man. I'm gonna let God deal with that. All I'm asking is that the truth come out. So I went in and hollered at my bunkie, right? And I was like, Hey man, listen, uh, you know, they gave me that write up. He was like, man, listen, I got you. I'm gonna write you a letter. Cause you know, in prison, if you get in trouble, you still got to go to, it's called CAB, you got to go to court inside a prison to deal with write ups. And so I had, I had, yeah, I had a court time. I had a court date. Um, so he wrote me a letter. So he wrote me a letter saying that it, that it wasn't mine. You know, yeah, he all that, you know, it wasn't he is this and that. So when I took the letter to now, I've been claiming everybody from my hometown and getting upset because I won't fight. But I'm saying to myself, man, God, I just want the truth to come out. I take the letter in there. They read it. They said, man, go get him. So I went and got him and they brought him back in there. They said, Hey, did you write this? He said, yeah. All right. They said, is this true? He said, yeah. Now he got, at this time, he got like 16 more days left to go home. They said, okay, we writing you up. Then he tried to change his story. Oh no, no, no. Look, I was just trying to write that for him. You know, I was just trying to help him out.

Speaker 5: 1:07:07

So

Speaker 3: 1:07:08

I looked at him and I said, bro, you, you really saying that this, that that was mine, man. They said, no, we believe this. They said, Mr. Fuller, you exonerated, you free to go, man. They let me go and wrote him up. And so now I'm like, glory be to God. I'm like, man, bless God. Not knowing that now he's so mad. He's plotting to jump on me. He want to fight me now because I wouldn't take his case. Right. Right. So, yeah, so, so now, you know, through the grapevine, my guy pull up on me and say, Hey man, you know, you need to, you need to watch yourself. So now I'm back in there and I'm playing chess. He cussing me out. He talking all kinds of craziness and old school that I was playing chess with. He couldn't even play cause he was listening to what dude was saying. And he said, man, you don't hear that. And I said, man, listen, when you know who you are, you don't answer to any name. And he looked at me and he was like, what he said, what'd you say? I said, when you know who you are, you don't answer to any name. So he calling me punks all list. I know who I am, so I don't have to answer. I'm not about to answer to what you call me. Right. And so, uh, we locked down and, uh, I talked to him. I'm like, man, listen, man. We can't be in here together. He was like, man, you could have took the charge for me, this and that. And, um, so I'm like, man, I'm trying to go home. So, uh, that was left alone and I'm praying now, this is what I'm saying, man, God, I ain't gonna just let him, you know, just put his hands on, you know, I ain't just, you know, I ain't there yet. Turn another cheek. I ain't, I ain't there. You know, I'm still fresh of being a baby, you know, baby Christian. So I'm like, I ain't going to let him just, you know, sit there and whoop me, man. I'm not about to do that. I said, God, I just need for you to move. And what's so crazy is as soon as they came out, open the doors, getting ready to go for a dinner, they told him pack his bags. He was moved. Oh, God's working. Man, listen, man, I didn't kill nobody. God is faithful. Man, listen, man, I'm telling you, man, they moved in, man. And, and it was just, man, I was just blown away, man. So those are some of the things that, um, that God was just doing in my life, man. So I'm going to church, man. I'm studying the word, man. God is moving into prison, but I, you know, I'm a basketball, I'm a hooper though. So I'm still hooping. Now he ain't take that fire from me. So I'm out there on the basketball court. I'm talking crazy and I'm winning, you know, and so individuals is getting upset, they ready to fight, you know, and, um, my room, my bunk, you know, he was from Gary matter of fact, and I'm talking crazy and he lost every game. I whooped him every game. Oh, he mad. He come back. Now we're in the door. 100 people. He talking crazy. Tell me how you how you would me. How you gonna jump on me this and that. And I just politely said to him, I said, Man, listen, and we called him dirty left. I said, Dirty left. Listen, man, I said, I ain't been saved all my life, so it ain't gonna go like you think it's gonna go. Because now they're used to me, you know, man walking and So many talking about Jesus and so they just automatically assume that you know, oh yeah, he want, you know, he a Christian, so he'll let you do anything to him, right? And so as he's talking and doing that, and I told him that, and then I said, second thing is, man, we better than that. I was like, man, come on, man. I mean, man, I love you, bro. We better than that. And he came all the way down, deescalated. Now he's doing Everybody in an environment where the mindset is if you let one person do

Speaker 2: 1:11:26

it, everybody's

Speaker 3: 1:11:27

gonna

Speaker 2: 1:11:27

do it,

Speaker 3: 1:11:27

then it there. So you're right. Then everybody gonna feel like they can do it. So But brother, but pastor Daniel, he's watching though. And I don't know this. So he seen that and man, and he pulled up on me afterwards and he was like, listen, I've been watching you. He said, man, a lot of people come and go talk about Jesus, this, Jesus, that they leave and come back. He said, but man. He said, you, you different when you, when you say that, and I've never seen nobody do nothing like that. And so I asked him a question, man. I said, uh, I said, man, who do you trust? I said, man, do you trust yourself enough to make the right decision at the right time? And we had to lock down at that time. He said, man, I trust my mother. Then I asked him about, do you trust yourself? He wasn't able to answer that. And so he didn't even come and answer that for like a week and a half. He didn't come back to me. I mean, he said, man, that question had him up. Man, he couldn't even sleep because that question just bothered him because at this time, you know, he's running, he got gains in every In every, uh, penitentiary in Indiana at this time, you know, so he's a major figure, you know, um, and that question bothered me, man. And so he finally came to me and he was like, man, no, I don't even trust myself. I said, man, you got people following you, man, and you okay with that, leading them down the wrong path? And so I worked laundry. And, um, well, I would get out at nighttime, 1030 at night, when everybody else had to lie down. That's when I went to work, washing laundry. Me and God is by myself, studying the word, I'm reading, it's quiet. And, uh, a position came open to work with me, and Pastor Daniel got the position. And man, he ended up giving his life to Christ, man. He ended up giving his life to Christ, man. In the laundry room, man. I have one question.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

That

Speaker 3: 1:13:43

one

Speaker 2: 1:13:44

question drove him right there. Man. Come on,

Speaker 3: 1:13:46

man. Come on, man. So it was just amazing, man. And, and, and how God moved, man, uh, in that situation, he got saved out of the book of Nehemiah, because to me, the greatest leader outside of Jesus Christ, to me, as I'm reading the word of God to me was Nehemiah. So I'm reading Nehemiah to him, man, me and him reading, man. And he got saved, man. Um, some of his, some of his counterparts, they wasn't okay with that. So they approached me. Yeah, you know, they like, man, you sitting up here, man. You're the one did that. I said, man, let me say, wait a minute. Hold on time. I said, man, you give me too much credit because I had the power to change another man. Me and you wouldn't even be having this conversation. Cause I would have started with me first. Amen. Right. Yes. I'm like, man, I would have started with me first. I wouldn't even be here. And so, man, I said, man, listen, if y'all mad at anybody, man, be mad at God, take it up with him, go talk to him, pray to him and, and, and express your, your, your, your feelings to him. Cause he, the one did it. I ain't not man. So that was, you know, just. A piece of man, uh, the favor, man, that God showed me, man, while I was in prison, man, and I'm still not knowing what he doing, I just know I love the word of God, man, I just know I love the word, man, and, uh, and I'm just sharing it, so then when individuals be like, man, you're a preacher, I'm like, man, I ain't no preacher. Because my understanding of a preacher was somebody that take your money.

Speaker: 1:15:34

So

Speaker 3: 1:15:35

yeah, yeah. So that was my understanding, man. So needless to say, man, prison was You know, it wasn't my, it was, it was my, it wasn't my tomb. It was my womb. It was where God was knitting me together, man, where he was, you know, uh, uh, developing things in my life, man, developing me, man. Um, for me, for when I came home, you know, a lot of the things that I struggled with, they wasn't going nowhere. So it was like, listen, man, them things ain't going nowhere. So now you got to be at the point to where now when you face him, you got to learn how to trust me.

Speaker 2: 1:16:15

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:16:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:16:16

The build you up.

Speaker 3: 1:16:18

So you're right. So you're right, man. And so when I came home, man, great challenges, man, but God been faithful. I ain't been faithful, man.

Speaker 2: 1:16:30

Let's walk. All right. So, so how much time did you end up, um, doing out at the 20 they gave you? So

Speaker 3: 1:16:36

I did seven and a half, man. God bless. God

Speaker 2: 1:16:41

bless.

Speaker 3: 1:16:42

Good. Hey, man, I did seven and a half, man. And you know what? They started calling me cause everybody would ask me, man, when you get out and I will be like any day now, it'd be like, man, okay, yeah, all right, bro. But, but we, we get, that's what you believe. It'd be like, but when you really getting out,

Speaker 5: 1:17:02

man,

Speaker 3: 1:17:02

I mean, what does your paperwork say? I say, oh, I don't go by that.

Speaker 5: 1:17:08

You

Speaker 3: 1:17:08

know what I'm saying? I'm like, oh yeah, I don't, I don't go by that, bro. And then he was like, when you get, I said, man, any day. And I didn't unpack a lot of my stuff. So the stuff that I knew I was taking when I leave, it was already packed up. You hear me, bro? Yes. Listen. Yes. Because one thing they wasn't gonna have to do was wait on me to get ready to exit when God opened the door.

Speaker 2: 1:17:32

You lived it. You lived it like you gonna happen. You know, you Yeah. Had that faith, you know? That's it. So yeah, man. Who call you to come home? Tell us about that. Tell us about that. That day of. Cause that was a glorious day. Tell us about it.

Speaker 3: 1:17:48

Listen, man, that was an awesome day, man. So, uh, actually the same prosecutor that my wife would go up and go to scene and different community, people go up and be like, Hey, You know, let him come on home. You know what I'm saying? Even done enough time. And the prosecutor was like, if I get a bunch of visits, a bunch of phone calls, a bunch of letters, he going to do every day, man, my wife go up there, man. And I got married in prison too. So yeah, man. Yeah, man. Uh, man, my wife, man, I was with her in high school, you know, when she was one of the ones that I was with, but man, she was one of the ones that, that I really like, Ooh, I want her, man, but we got reconnected, man. Uh, yeah, man, we got reconnected, man. And we got married in prison. So my wife, I was married for four years in prison. I was married four years in prison, man, before I came home, man. And, uh, that was it. And that just go with that any day now, because my wife would ask me, Hey, when you going home? When you come home? And I'll be like any day. So she finally said, Hey, listen, This four years and you still talking about any day now, like, okay, I get that. But, but you've been talking that mess for four years. And I said, well, you know, actually I've been talking it for seven, you know, you just caught the last one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So man, listen, man, ended up coming home. Um, because the prosecutor, he ended up writing a letter on my behalf to the clemency board, uh, for the simple fact that when individuals coming home and had to go to court and the judge would ask him, man, what have you been doing with your time? They would always bring my name up, man. Kojak, you know, I've been working with him. Bible study. They would always bring my name up, man. That's why the prosecutor wrote a letter on my behalf. He said, you know what? I'm convinced, man, this dude changed, you know? Uh, yeah, man. So I had to tell my wife that, you know, I was like, listen, he don't have the last say. So she come home crying, talking to the prosecutor. And I said, he ain't got the last say so in my life, you know? Um, so I'm just letting you know, don't get, don't get caught up on him saying no. Because if God say Yes, I don't care who say no.

Speaker: 1:20:31

That's right.

Speaker 3: 1:20:32

And so, man, that was just so powerful to where I never said anything to him. He heard other people coming and testifying about me, and he wrote a letter to the clemency board on my behalf, talking about releasing me Earth. Amen.

Speaker 2: 1:20:49

Amen. Man. Man, listen. Now works. He works everywhere. He works everywhere, man. Come on

Speaker 3: 1:20:54

man.

Speaker 2: 1:20:56

Then that just when you came home, what did you Um,

Speaker 3: 1:21:00

so when I came home, I was in work release. Okay. Yeah. So when I came home, I was in work release, man. So I was supposed to do, I got the 10 year sentence. I only do seven. I only did seven and a half in prison. So when I came home, I got two and a half years. That I have to do in work release, you know, uh, I ended up doing six months in work release, they let me out. And they said, you know, we're going to put the rest of that. So two years, we're going to put two years on top of your probation. So I already got 10 years probation. So you put that other two on there. That's 12 years, right? That's excessive. So, yeah, yeah, so I was like, I ain't trippin and I wasn't trippin for the simple fact that, ah, man, shoot, I'm walkin now, yeah, I ain't, listen, a lot of this stuff that you got on paper, oh, I'm cool, I ain't doin none of that anyway, so, you know, this right here is not gon limit me,

Speaker 2: 1:22:04

you know what I'm sayin I see what you're sayin I see what you're sayin

Speaker 3: 1:22:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, this, yeah, this ain't gon limit me, man. You left out

Speaker 2: 1:22:10

in the old life.

Speaker 3: 1:22:11

Show you right?

Speaker 2: 1:22:12

Yeah. Show you. Right.

Speaker: 1:22:13

Got

Speaker 3: 1:22:14

so I'm like this is a cakewalk. Them 12 years, y'all got, I ain't tripping. And I can do it, man. I did it one year of probation. They threw the other years out.

Speaker 2: 1:22:24

Wow. Man, look at I man. You're walking testimony brother. Listen man, you man testimony man. Mm. Good lord bro.

Speaker 3: 1:22:36

I mean man, how God showed up, man. I did one year probation man. And like I tell brothers, I'll be like, man, listen, man, I'm telling you, man, God is exactly who he said he is, man. And he loves making history. He loves doing things when people put their sign, they name and draw their conclusion to say what, man, he specializes in the impossible, man. I've never heard. And, and everybody said this, man, I ain't never heard him do that. Now I heard him. If you do like 10 years, then they throw one year out, you know, or two years out. Cause you didn't did majority at a time. They like you good, man. You did one year and they threw all that out. I said, absolutely, man.

Speaker 2: 1:23:26

Well, what were you doing? What, what was it that you were doing during that year? Cause. I'm sure that they looked at something that you were doing and said, Hey, you know, like, what was it that you think, what do you feel it was that, that made them throw that out? Like during that year, what were you, um, what did you have going on at that year?

Speaker 3: 1:23:42

Because I made up in my mind, man, that, you know, ministry wise, man, I had a heart for young people, man. Uh, because as we go back to my life, when I started having kids at 15, my first child at 15, my second child at 16. By the time I was a senior in high school, I had three and just having no clue, man. So I had a heart for young people, man. And, uh, and so when I came home, I started a a basketball camp. Free basketball camp because people knew me a basketball to where I wanted to deal with young people, man, and just share the love of God with him, man. And, and I would mentor youngsters, you know, uh, I stayed in the neighborhood where, you know, a lot of crime was going on a lot of. Young people was around. And so I stayed right there in the middle, man. Cause when I came home, I'm married. That's what my wife stayed. She had a house, bought a house there. And so, uh, man, I was just connected with a lot of young people. So I was always engaged in mentoring young people, man. So they seen some of these things that I was doing. I would go to the juveniles and I would do mentoring In the juvenile system here in Anderson, man. And so they was just like, man, this dude consistent, man, he's doing. And I also worked for, uh, this ministry called man for man ministries. And it was a ministry for me. And that was incarcerated coming home, helping them get acclimated, re acclimated with society, with their families.

Speaker 4: 1:25:20

Was that an Anderson as well?

Speaker 3: 1:25:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, that was in Anderson, man. Um, and so I was a part of it. I was sentenced. I had to go to man for man. And then when I got there, man, it was, it was so awesome, man. That was a vehicle that God was using to help build me as well, man. And, uh, so then I started working for him. You know, so I was firstly a client or participant, then I got a job from a man and from there, man, you know, I started working at the juvenile and next thing you know, now I'm working in the school system, you know, and I still got this record though. Wow. So, yeah, so I'm getting a job.

Speaker 2: 1:26:02

It's like, you know, like that they that the school system hires you. And you're feeling like that says a lot right there. What's the name of some of the ministries and some of the groups like? What are some of the groups in the ministries that you're working with that you're part of and what do you, what do you got going on there?

Speaker 3: 1:26:20

Well, that was man for man ministries, man. And then like I said, man, but that was for me, you know, I got a heart for me and to, but my heart is for young people, man. Uh, man, I love young people, man. And so I was connected. I went to the juvenile because, you know, I'm just being led by God in the school system, man, I, in the school system, I'm making 35 an hour as a life coach, you know, and, and when I first got out of prison, I was told that there was a guy that was there at HR and, and I wanted to get into the schools to really work with some of the young, some parents. You know, some of the young individuals that was getting in trouble, the delinquents, you know, gun violence, fighting, doing all that. And, I had a HR tell me, uh, listen, man, as long as I'm in this position, you would never be in the school system. Oh, he told me that's in my face.

Speaker 2: 1:27:16

You know, God removes, God removes them thorns.

Speaker 3: 1:27:19

I

Speaker 2: 1:27:21

already know I have, I literally have situations like that happening in my life at this very moment. And I, I watched God remove obstacles on a regular base. Nothing stops the Lord's plan. Nothing, nothing, nothing.

Speaker 3: 1:27:39

Yeah, bro. Yeah, for real, man. Next thing you know, some years later, man, I'm in the school system. Making 35 an hour, man. Um, I'm getting paid off of my history. You hear me? I'm getting paid off of where I be, you know, because I have a rapport with the young people. They listened to me. I mean, man, it was like, man, the favorite that God gave me with young people, man, it was, it was bananas. And so as I'm building this and I'm in the school system, man, and, and God is preparing me, man. And I went through a season, man. My grandson, man, he had, he had, uh, he was born with a bad heart, man. Uh, his valves to his heart was small, man. And so he was having these surgeries, man, 30, 40 surgeries. But before he was one, he had open heart surgery, man. Um, and they was telling me, yeah, man, they was telling me that by the time he's 10, he's going to need a new heart. So I'm believing God will heal that. You know, I'm like, he specializes in, in the heart, you know, heart department, you know what I'm saying? So I'm believing God, man. And, uh, man, darkest time in my life, man, my grandson ended up passing away, man, at the age of four. And, uh, And routine surgery, man. Yeah, man. And he passed away, man. I was angry with God. I ain't want to talk to nobody, man. I was so wounded. I couldn't even help my son, whose son it was, you know, my family looking to me as, as answers, man, dad, we're going to be all right. Is everything going to be okay? They looking at me as the one that's going to be like, man, we're going to bless the Lord, man. Listen, man, God, we good. And man, I ain't had none of that for nobody,

Speaker 5: 1:29:38

man.

Speaker 3: 1:29:40

And, uh, I didn't tell a lot of people cause I ain't want a lot of people trying to scripture me to death. You know what I'm saying? I knew the scripts, you know what I'm saying? I just didn't understand how this was working in God's plan, man. I didn't. And so I was angry with him, man. And, uh, man, it was, I'm telling you, man, it was the most liberating time of my life. Most liberating time of my life, man, was when I was angry with God because for the simple fact That when Jesus said, they that worship me must worship me in spirit and in truth. Listen to me, man. He, he meant that, that true parts where I didn't have to try to fix it up. I didn't tell a lot of people because I didn't want them to try to protect God as if he couldn't handle my truth. I was angry with him. And man, it was at that time, man, when I got my breakthrough man, when God was able to really man minister to me, man, in such a powerful way, man, to where I started, I started on my road to healing man after losing my grandson. So me and my grandson would play Nerf basketball in my house. You know, when he would shoot, he score, I'd be like money. And so then when it was time for me to score, he'd be like money. And so, you know, um, I had a brother, man, that was like, Hey, when you come to this prayer meeting that we have, I was like, man, I don't, I really don't even feel like it, man. And, uh, he was like, man, can we please? Cause I just want you to be in that environment, you know? So I, I went, uh, it was about 30 minutes away. I went and, uh, from my home and I drove and then I got there. And so it's, it's Christian business, man. Uh, the chaplain for the Indianapolis Colts was there, you know, big business man. Yeah, man. And so they was there and they was going around talking about, you know, amen. Uh, so it was all about what can we pray for you about, you know, um, what individuals wanted prayer for, you know? And so individually. It was like, man, can y'all pray for me on this right here for this and for that. So when they got to me, I was like, listen, man, I can't pray for y'all because I can't even pray for myself. And man, they stopped was doing man. Everybody said everything to the side, put me in the middle of the floor, man. And pray for me, man. Laid hands on me, man. On my way home, man, on my way home, God dropped in my spirit. Money ministries, like what? Money ministries.

Speaker: 1:32:27

Yes sir.

Speaker 3: 1:32:27

And so can you see this right here?

Speaker 2: 1:32:30

I do see it. Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:32:31

Okay. It is So yeah, so now see this, is that your grandson? Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir. That's my logo, man. My grandson is my logo And so this is what's so crazy, he dropping in my spirit. On my way home and then money is an acronym and it stands for moving obstacles now for every youth. So the number four is when my grandson passed away. So it's moving obstacles now for every youth. Yeah, man. And so he gave me that ministry, man, because one thing about my grandson, bro, uh, brother Julio is if, if you never seen the six inch incision, Or if I never told you his story, you would never know he was sick because he didn't look like what he'd been through. You know what I'm saying? And so God had told me, he was like, listen, if you can create an environment, if you can create an environment to where I am exalted, You can allow, you can help young people outlive they condition. So our job is to go in, man, whatever obstacle and individual youngsters facing, because, you know, I mean, even people, we do whatever we're going through, that becomes our filter. To where we start looking through, we start looking at life through this filter through whatever it is we're going through our relationships is based off of this obstacle that's in front of us. Anything that we're going through, uh, is going through this filter. And so God is saying, listen, I need for you to go in and move the obstacle out the way. So they can see a bigger picture of what I'm trying to do in a life and of who they are, man. And so that's what I do now, man. I left my job making 35 an hour, man, to do this full time, you know, for the glory of God, man. So I'm just out, man. Listen,

Speaker 2: 1:34:41

you know, you stepped out in faith, you're obedient, you're listening to the word and you know, blessings behind that.

Speaker 3: 1:34:50

And it made zero sense because now me and my wife, my wife, and I'm saying, she like, well, okay, how are we going to pay this mortgage though?

Speaker 4: 1:34:58

You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: 1:35:00

And so a lot of that is coming up and I'm like, man, God, I don't. So I'm kind of hesitant. Then my wife came to me, but I'm ready to leave at any time. But I'm like, how do I leave? And my wife is like, listen, how are we going to do this and that? And so I'm praying. And my wife finally came to me and she said, Hey, listen, I see what God is doing. You can leave whenever you, whenever, if he told you to leave, leave your job. And I left, man. And he'd been providing, he'd been providing, listen, man, I don't have a job. I ain't getting paid, you know, but what God is doing, man, he's laying the foundation, you know, he's laying the foundation, man. And so he'd been faithful. He'd been faithful. So that's, excuse me. So that's what I do, man. Full time, man. Is uh, man, just doing this ministry, man, money ministries, man, whatever God telling me to do, man, I'm doing it, man.

Speaker 2: 1:36:02

Somebody, you know, um, how can people reach out? How can we find you on social media? Maybe, you know, people want to donate or just look up what you're doing.

Speaker 3: 1:36:12

How could they find you, man? They can find me. Listen to me. Facebook. I got Facebook, Instagram. There's a money ministries page. Um, you can also go to my website that's still being constructed, but it's money ministries. com. Uh, yeah, man, you can go on there. You can donate on through there through the website, man. I got cash app Venmo, PayPal money ministries, man. You can look those up. Also, man, email money ministries, 18 at gmail. com. Yeah, man, this is what I've been listening, and I'm just sold out, man, for the purpose and glory, glory of God, man. So yeah, man, anything you want to find out about me, man, you can go, or you can just go and look, look for Kojak Fuller, you know, look me up Kojak Fuller, man, and you can find information.

Speaker 2: 1:37:06

Definitely leave some links down in the comments. So people could just, you know, hit a link and, you know, go straight to your page and, where they can leave donations, where they can support you, where they can get support if they need support. And we'll definitely, um, we'll be doing that.

Speaker 3: 1:37:22

That'll work, man. Appreciate that, man.

Speaker 2: 1:37:24

Man. Um, thanks. Uh, thanks for coming on and sharing with us, man. Um, man, we really appreciate it. Kojak, like The story that you said, like, you know, it's so inspiring, you know, to see God work, you know, it's like when your wife came to you and said, it's time, quit your job. It's like confirmation, you know, women, our wives, they, they have this discernment, you know what I mean? And we move through them. We move as one, and she just, she just knew it was time already, you know, and. It's, it's nothing but blessings, when you are both on the same page spiritually, both God, both stepping out in faith, like you said, like, how are we going to pay this mortgage? I'm sure she was wondering that too, but it didn't stop her from saying, we're going to do, we're going to be obedient in the Lord. We're going to step up, we're going to do what he tells us to do. So my God bless her to my God bless her for that.

Speaker 3: 1:38:15

Listen, man, I'm thankful for my wife, man. I'm thankful for her, man. I am, man, because that just allowed me to challenge. I mean, that challenged me, uh, in my relationship with God on a whole nother level, you know, uh, to where now I got to be more open to what God is saying, because now it's really evident that my wife saying, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm rolling with you. I'm going with you, but, but where we going though? Right? What we doing? You know, you know, a a as Habakkuk would say, write the vision and make it plain. You know, she's saying, well, okay, let me see the vision and, and make it plain to me so I can go ahead and just, I'm gonna jump out with you, man. So, man, super thankful man for my wife, man, and just the growth. We're about to celebrate 22 years of marriage. Man, man.

Speaker 2: 1:39:09

Amen.

Speaker 3: 1:39:11

Yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 1:39:12

Amen.

Speaker 3: 1:39:13

Yeah, man. So, hey man, I appreciate you man. We appreciate you coming. I appreciate y man, roam the

Speaker 2: 1:39:20

strong man. You got any, uh, final words and maybe you want to close us out with a prayer?

Speaker 3: 1:39:25

Alright, man, I'll definitely close out with a prayer man. And, you know, uh, man, I always say this, man. This is my motto, man. My today is not my future, man. And my mistakes don't define my purpose, you know, uh, yeah, man, I honestly believe that man to where, um, whatever you're going through, you know, it's not your destination. This is not the end man. And, and I'll leave you with this man one thing about exits when you're on the highway. Um, you know, as many exits, man, exits are good, man, because it lets us know that we're going somewhere, every exit leads you somewhere, you know, uh, but I would really encourage individuals to tap into God because even though every exit is good, that don't mean that it's the right exit. You know, so you want to make sure that you getting off on the right exit, man. What exit is God calling you to get off on, um, to where it's connected to your destination. So the right exit is always connected to where God is taking you to man. And so, man, I just encourage individuals to tap into who he is so we can start getting off on the right X may not be the popular exit. But it's the right exit where God would have you to be, man. So I just want to say to you, uh, brother Julio, man, thank you, brother. I appreciate your time, man. Uh, I appreciate what you and brother Omar's doing with wrong to strong, man. Keep man, allowing God to be God in your lives, man. Uh, because man, this ain't it, man. This ain't. Listen, man, what he's done, man, is just scratching the surface, man. Really, man, God is, he's all about territory, enlarging territory. Cause see, that's what kingdoms do. They take over territory. And so God is preparing us to even enlarge the territory, man, to take over more territory for him. So, man, I just want to encourage you brothers, man. Man, keep on, man. Keep on keeping on in the Lord, man. Cause I'm telling you, bro, it ain't over with. You just scratching the surface, man. So I appreciate y'all brothers,

Speaker 2: 1:41:38

man. Thank you. You know what I would like to say? Cause I know that, you know, you have a lot of young followers and I feel like, a lot of the, the guys that you meant to, I feel like they're going to, they're going to be on here. I feel like they're going to come. They're going to, they're going to want to see your story, you know, and I just would like to encourage them all to say and say to all of them, God will, he'll meet you where you're at. You don't have to. You don't have to get right and come to God. You don't, you don't get clean to take a shower, so just, just come to God. Just trust him. That's right. He'll where you're at. You don't have to quit doing anything. You just come. You just come to him. You just tell him I'm ready. He'll come to you. He'll clean you up. He'll do the rest You. Your job is only to say, I'm ready. I'm ready to accept your gift. It's done. It's

Speaker 5: 1:42:26

basic. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:42:27

You don't have to do anything else. So you know, I really, I urge you, you know any young guys that are out there watching right now to just know that the Lord will meet you where you're at. He doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies to call. So just come on

Speaker 3: 1:42:40

now. You

Speaker 2: 1:42:41

know, just pump the down. Tell him you're ready. Yes sir. And let him do his thing. He's the sweetest planner. Your plans, you know, God literally laughs at our plan. We have the best ideas and we think that we have, you know, we have the biggest plans in the world and they're so small when we see what, what God's plans are, when we put our lives in his hands and we let him do what he needs to do and what he does. And we look back at our plans and see where he takes us, man, his plan is always so much better. So you're right. Yes. Just, just trust God, come to him, come to him and let him do what he does. Amen. And, and, and, and just be amazed as you could see, you know, from our brother our brother Kojack, like he miracle after miracle after miracle. You know, like one after another. So, would, would you wanna, um, take us out in prayer, brother,

Speaker 3: 1:43:40

man? Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Father God, we just thank you and bless you, God, for who you are. Lord, we just thank you for being so amazing. God, we just thank you, Lord, that who you are is not, uh, predicated on our performance. God, we thank you that you change. Not God. We thank you, Lord, that you still called us. You knew us from the foundations of the world. Father God, you knew. All the mess, father, God, you knew what we was going to be, what was, what we was going to do, all of the things, father, God, that we was going to be mixed up in God, but you still chose us God. And so, Lord, we thank you father God for choosing us. We thank you, Lord, that you chose us and you brought us into your family, God. And, uh, you, you took us exactly how we were to love us enough not to leave us the way you found us. And so, God, we thank you and we bless you for that. Lord, I want to speak. Uh, a blessing father God over a wrong to strong father God in the name of Jesus. God, I ask that you continue to use this vehicle, uh, uh, to, to definitely touch areas, Lord, uh, to connect, uh, individuals, father God, to your glory, Lord, uh, to who you are, to your love, to your forgiveness, keep using, uh, brother Omar, brother Julio, father God, uh, for your glory, God, keep allowing them to touch. Every individual that you, that you, uh, put in their pathway, God, we know that the steps of the righteous man are ordered by the Lord. And so God let them understand father God, that even though it may not look right, God, that you are the order of their steps, father God, that you still direct in them God. And so Lord, we know God that, uh, all things work together for the good of them. And love you and are called according to your purpose. So God, we just love you. We just bless you. We just thank you father, God, that you'd be so faithful and it's not about us, God, but it's about you being faithful to your word. And so, Lord, I just thank you, God. I just ask and pray that you continue to bless us, continue to change us, God, that we may be a help to those that don't know you and not a hindrance. God. And so Lord, we forever bless you forever. Thank you. Bless, uh, my brother Julio and his family. God allow him to be everything that, uh, you've called him to be God. And I just pray Lord, uh, hedge of protection over his family, Lord. And I pray favor over his family, God, that they will be instruments of the gospel Lord and the love of God. And Lord, we just love you. And we thank you father God, in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that, man. Appreciate you, man. I'll put my, uh, my website in the chat, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:46:28

Okay, good, good. Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll put it up. Um, thank you for joining us for another episode of Wrong to Strong Chicago. Uh, Matthew 416 reads, The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and upon those who sat in the region in the shadow of death. Light has dawned. My name is Julio Ricardo, my guest here, Maurice Kojak Fuller, and we are Wrong to Strong.